S1, E01 – Pride and Prejudice: The Book

Full Episode Transcript

Ghenet: Oh, Hello. It’s me, your host, Ghenet. I just wanted to say a very big thanks to everyone who has shared about the podcast and shown it some love on social media. It really, really means a lot. I am so excited to be able to share the very first episode of The Book Was Better Podcast, and now, on to the show.

[The Book Was Better Podcast theme]

Welcome to The Book Was Better. I am your host, Ghenet, and I am joined today by two very lovely ladies who are also podcasters, Molly and Becca from Pod and Prejudice. We’re going to be talking about a great book today and their adaptations. But first, before we get started, do you guys want to take a second to introduce yourselves? 

Becca: Hi, yeah, thank you. Hello, all Ghenet fans. 

Molly: Hi. 

[laughter] 

Molly: Thanks so much for having us. This is so exciting. 

Ghenet: Of course. I’ve been listening to your podcast, and that was part of the reason that I came up with the idea to do my own is because I hadn’t watched the mini-series, and I posted that on my Instagram stories and the reaction was quite something. And then, I thought this would be a funny podcast to talk about books and their adaptations as a whole, and that’s how it happened. So, I thought what better people to have to talk about Pride and Prejudice than the two of you. 

Molly: That’s so sweet. That makes me so happy. 

Becca: We are honored.

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: The gist of our podcast is that Molly and I have been friends for I guess eight years or seven years, and we were talking about doing a podcast together, and it came to light that Molly had never read any of Jane Austen’s work or seen any movie adaptations. We thought it would be fun to do a podcast where Molly would read the Jane Austen canon for the first time and watch all the adaptations of it, and I would be her–

Ghenet: Spirit guide.

Becca: Yes, her spirit of Austen guide. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Oh, that’s amazing. So, this is your first-time reading and watching any of it, Molly?

Molly: Yes. It’s funny, when I started, obviously, I hadn’t read anything. Now, I’ve read the book once, and I’ve watched each episode of the BBC 1995 adaptation probably four times, and I’ve seen the 2005 moving probably five times. [laughs] So, I went from knowing nothing to being too much of an expert, I would have to say. [crosstalk]

Ghenet: Becca, what about you?

Becca: I did start my journey with Jane Austen through film, because when I was younger, I became obsessed with the 1995 filmed version of Sense and Sensibility. 

Ghenet: Yes. 

Becca: I was drawn to Austen works, and for this podcast, I tried to think about whether I’d read Pride and Prejudice or watched the movies first. And it’s muddled in my brain a little because I know I watched the 9095 and read the book in high school, and they became so synonymous with each other in my head that I actually couldn’t figure out which one I did first. I think that I did see the 2005 one when it came out, but I wasn’t big into Pride and Prejudice at that point in time. I watched it, and I remember at the time thinking, I think I liked Keira Knightley better in Pirates of the Caribbean but it’s a cool movie.

Molly: Another Elizabeth.

[laughter] 

Ghenet: We’re going to be talking about Pride and Prejudice today, which I feel of all of Jane Austen’s work is maybe the one that has the most adaptations of some kind. There’s a lot of them. We’re only talking about two, but like– 

Molly: There’s an endless supply.

Ghenet: Oh, yes. An endless and endless supply. Great. So, should we jump right into the book? 

Molly and Becca: Let’s do it. 

Ghenet: Amazing. Okay. So, Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice. It is a truth universally acknowledged, might be the most famous line of all time, and it starts with that, and then we begin to meet the Bennet family, which is very exciting. We learn that Netherfield Park has been let it last, and the person who has let it has a great big old fortune, and well, really, he’s wanting a wife, so, Mrs. Bennet wants him to marry one of her daughters like you do. And then, we come to find that Mr. Bennet has an affinity for teasing his wife because she’s a little bit ridiculous, and then we come to learn a little bit more about all of the daughters, and there’s five daughters in total. We’ve got Jane, we’ve got Lizzie, I’m off to a very good start. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Then, we’ve got Mary, then we’ve got Kitty, and then we’ve got Lydia.

Molly: Yeah. 

Becca: The easiest way to remember the Jane thing is that Jane Austen was a perfect beautiful, older sister who everyone likes universally. What shall we name her? 

Molly: How about Jane?

[laughter] 

Ghenet: This whole family lives together and we find out that they are not destitute, but they’re not wealthy. Mrs. Bennet is a little bit of a silly, can’t contain herself. She says whatever she’s thinking, her manners are questionable at times, as well as a couple of her daughters. As we move forward, we get to see a bit more about the life that they lead. Everyone finds out about Bingley coming to stay at Netherfield. Everyone in Hertfordshire is talking about it. This gossip that’s happening is like a game of telephone. They are trying to figure out how many people are coming with Bingley to the ball, everyone’s really excited about the ball, and when they actually arrive, it’s literally Bingley, his one sister, and Mr. Darcy.

Becca: Mr. Darcy. 

Ghenet: Mr. Darcy, who we find out through this gossipy game of telephone has 10,000 a year, and all of them like him best immediately saying that he’s more handsome than Bingley, and then they actually get to know him, and think that he’s stuck-up and proud. Then, everyone’s like, “Nope, [unintelligible 00:06:15] kidding.” Jane admits that she has a big old crush on Mr. Bingley, and they find out a little bit about him, that he inherited a large sum of money from his father. Yeah, we learned quite a bit about them. It’s quite interesting. The distinction between class in the Jane Austen books, I think that’s a theme that comes up quite a bit, social classes and how they affect people on a day-to-day basis. 

Molly: It’s frustrating. I feel for me reading the book, I was frustrated and in all the subsequent adaptations as well, that the class distinction is so narrow. The Bennets are not poor. They’re not dirt poor. It’s like, “Oh, but they’re not born into a great deal of wealth.” So, one step to the next is not that far, and it’s frustrating to has to distinguish that. 

Becca: Yeah, and I think the difference between money, and class, and how those two interplay, because you have someone like Darcy, who has both money and noble family members. So, he gets that class pedigree and the money, whereas you have someone like Mr. Gardiner who makes money as a tradesman, but he has to work for his money, and he’s not as esteemed in society as Mr. Darcy. And then, you have Mr. Bennet, who is a gentleman, but doesn’t have the wealth of Mr. Darcy, and Lizzie and her sisters are not set to inherit it. So, despite the fact that they do have this rank in society, they have nothing to offer a partner monetarily. So, they’re a little fucked on this. 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: They’re out there with their charming personalities, and bosoms, and faces to try and win partners so they don’t starve later. 

Ghenet: Talk about having to hustle. 

Becca: Yeah.

Ghenet: Just so you can literally keep a roof over your head. It seems like a very dire situation, the way that especially Mrs. Bennet talks about it. That Mr. Bennet is going to die and they’re going to be out on the streets with nothing. I guess that is kind of true- 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: -which seems– it’s a very dramatic way of presenting that information [crosstalk] 

Molly: Yeah, the entire time, we were reading this book, I kept asking Becca, “Is Mr. Bennet going to die? Is someone going to murder him to get this estate? Is Mr. Collins going to murder him? Who knows?” Becca was like, “It’s not that book.” I was like, “I don’t believe you.” [laughs] 

Ghenet: Jane Austen murder mystery. 

Molly: Yeah, exactly. 

Becca: There is this sort of obsession with when people die and who gets what in the Austen era. To be fair to the women, it’s because they don’t have a way to make money otherwise. 

Ghenet: Yeah, that is accurate. It’s a plot point that comes up again and again, and also, another example of this is close friends, a close family to the Bennet is the Lucases who lived on the road and Charlotte is Lizzie’s particular friend. Charlotte, we find out is a little bit older and getting towards not past the age of marriage, but certainly a little bit older than most of the girls who would be getting married. She is 27, which as someone who’s already 27-

[laughter] 

Ghenet: -hurts my heart just a little bit, that she’s an old maid. In fact, I know this isn’t in the book, but there’s a line in the 2005 film-

Molly: Iconic.

Ghenet: -that literally cuts me when she’s like– 

Becca: I’m 27 years old.

Molly: I have no money and no prospects. I’m already a burden on my parents. 

Ghenet: When there’s another bit where Mrs. Bennet is like, “There’s a spinster in the making and no mistake,” and you’re just like, “Savage.”

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] Why are we being mean to Charlotte? 

Becca: Mrs. Bennet is so petty with Charlotte, it’s having– you know how popular girls always have that in movies that one girl they like rag on to make themselves feel better. Mrs. Bennet has Charlotte Lucas to be like, “Well, my daughters are beautiful at least and young.”

Molly: And to impress Bingley, she puts down Charlotte. She’s like, “Oh, well, Lizzie won’t deny that Charlotte’s plain,” and Lizzie like, “Mom, shut up. You’re not making us look good.” 

Ghenet: That is a thing that happens quite a bit. Again, talking about these women not having another option, they have to get married, which is why it’s on the forefront of everyone’s mind. There’s a dance, and the Bingley crew turns up, and everyone’s having a grand old time. Jane and Mr. Bingley hit it off straight away. Darcy does not make a good impression on anyone and basically says something quite rude about Lizzie, and she’s like, “Oh, I don’t care. Ha-ha-ha. He’s mean.”

Molly: But she does. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Quite a bit actually. Then, her sisters are acting ridiculous like they are prone to do. We get that quite a bit. As anytime there’s any sort of public anything, Kitty and Lydia just are up to assumption [crosstalk] always.

Molly: Get drunk, hang out dance, flirt with everybody. But I honestly did not pick up on that. When I was reading the book, I thought, “What fun. These girls are great,” and I didn’t pick up on the fact that it was probably a bad thing until Darcy brings it up later in the book. So, I was like, “Oh, the Bennets are so sweet. They’re like the [unintelligible [00:11:44] sisters, and everyone loves them because they are funky and cool, and #notlikeothergirls.” [laughs] But that’s what I thought. I did not pick up on it reading the book. 

Ghenet: Well, I think you don’t really because it seems so normal just that this is how they are all the time, and it’s like, “Oh, yeah,” and just the way that everyone responds to Kitty and Lydia. It doesn’t really seem like anyone has an issue with it. But again, there’s that class distinction that if they’re moving in circles that are of a higher class than them then, yes, actually, they need to be more refined. 

Becca: Also, I think it goes to our modern notions of what teenage girls should be allowed to act like. Nowadays, we’re like, ” Yeah, I got a teenage girl should go flirt and be a little stupid and make some poor life choices. It’s fine. We all do that as teenagers.” But back then, that was the thing that ruined girls for marriage. So, it carries different context.

Ghenet: Yeah, for sure. The next day at the dance, Charlotte comes around to have a little chat with them. They’re all talking about how much Bingley likes Jane, and how he danced with her all the time, and also Darcy’s offense of Lizzie, and then, she has this really great line, when Lizzie says, “I could easily forgive his pride if he had not mortified mine.” It’s such a good– yeah, because we’ve all been there when someone says something, and you’re a bit like, “I mean, I could let it go, but actually that really hurt my feelings.” So, I’m just going to hold that against you for a bit.

Molly: [crosstalk] But that’s a line that was not included in the BBC version, which was otherwise– there were a few lines that just weren’t included in that where it was otherwise a very on-the-book adaptation. But this line was included in the 2005 version, which I thought was cool, because they for the most part scrapped the book. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Accurate.

Molly: But a few lines like this, where I was like, “Oh, that was in the book and something that wasn’t in the BBC version.” Another one is Fordyce’s sermons. They just in the BBC version, they were like, “Meh.” 

Becca: Yeah. Jane uses it as a ploy to lure Collins away from Lizzie at some point, but– 

Molly: I did like that. I did like that.

Ghenet: They’re doing all of this. They have that catch-up. and then Charlotte and Lizzie have an interesting conversation where she basically advises that Jane should show her feelings to encourage Bingley as she is quite shy, and she doesn’t want to ruin her chances. Then, there’s a lot of events that they keep going to, different parties and things, and Darcy and Bingley and Caroline Bingley are attending all of these things now that they’re in the neighborhood, and then we start to see that Darcy is paying a bit of attention to Elizabeth and she doesn’t really understand why. 

Molly: Because he’s a vampire. He wants to suck her blood. 

Becca: He wants to suck something. 

Molly: Oh, my God. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Ghenet: But in a very refined and gentlemen way.

Molly: Oh, yeah. 

Becca: Nah, nah, nah. He doesn’t want it in a gentlemanly way at all. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: He’ll do it in a gentlemanly way. Don’t get me wrong. But that’s not what he wants. [crosstalk] probably underneath the chest of Fitzwilliam Darcy. 

[laughter] 

Molly: Oh, my God, he’s so pretty. 

Ghenet: Ooh, I’m blushing a bit. 

Becca: I know. Me too. [laughs] 

Ghenet: So, Lizzie is clueless, but notices him paying attention to her, and she’s just like, “Is he just finding things to criticize me about, I guess? Whatever, that’s fine.” So, they’re at this party this evening, and she’s walking by and someone tries to get Darcy to dance with Lizzie, and she’s like, “No, no. I’m good. I’m good. Thanks. This is awkward. I’m just going to run away now.” 

Then, there’s this really great conversation between Caroline Bingley and Mr. Darcy, where she wants to know what he’s thinking about, and he says something about a pair of very fine eyes, and Caroline’s like, “Oh, tell me more.” He goes, “Oh, well. I met Elizabeth Bennet.” Caroline’s like, “Beg pardon? What’s happening? What?” Darcy has a bit of a thing for Elizabeth Bennet, even though she wasn’t fine enough to tempt him before. But apparently, she is now. 

Molly: It is interesting. The first time he insults her, it’s very rude or it reads very rude. But then, now, he’s got this big crush on her, and I feel a lot of the conversation surrounding this book, at least for me, has been and then in the adaptations it has been how to interpret his first insult. Was he just being awkward, was he just trying to brush Bingley aside, which is how the 2005 plays it, or was he actually being a dick? Is it possible to change your heart so much so fast, or what was going on there that now he’s just changed his mind and done a complete 180?

Ghenet: They have that conversation before he’s had a real interaction with her. So, it’s definitely an interesting one, like what are the things that start to make him go, “Oh, right. Okay.” So, we have that lovely conversation. Then, lots of things happen in the social calendar of this Bennet family. The militia come to Meryton. So. Lydia and Kitty are very excited about that. They go to Meryton as much as they can to meet all the officers, and go to dinner parties, and it’s all very exciting. 

Caroline invites Jane to come to dinner at Netherfield, and Jane asks her mother for the carriage and her mom’s like, “No, no. You’re going to go on horseback.” 

Becca: What a ploy. 

Ghenet: Yeah, she called that. She was like, “Mm-hmm, hmm-hmm.” It starts to rain. Jane gets caught in the rain and takes ill and ends up staying at Netherfield for almost a week, I think, like a significant amount of time. But when she first gets ill, Lizzie is like, “Well, I’m just going to go, take care of her because I need to.” So, she walks to Netherfield, which is–

Molly: Scandele. 

Ghenet: It’s quite scandalous for the time. When she arrives, the whole party at Netherfield is shook. They just don’t know what to do with themselves.

Becca: It’s like for different reasons. The Bingley sisters are scandalized by her outer appearance because she got mud on her petticoats and walked all the way there by herself. 

Molly: How dare she? 

Becca: And then, you have Bingley who is just surprised, but happy to see her because he knows it’ll make Jane happy, and Bingley’s a curly fry and pure as hell. 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: And then you have Darcy, who sees Lizzie flushed and out of breath and can’t control himself.

[laughter] 

Ghenet: There’s a lot of feelings. I think even him having those feelings leaves him a bit shaky because he’s like– 

Molly: He’s in danger. 

Ghenet: That was how he describes it. When she eventually leaves, he’s like, “I’m out of danger.” 

Molly: Yeah, exactly. 

Ghenet: I’m staying [crosstalk] So, Lizzie and Jane are at Netherfield. Jane is basically sick. So, Lizzie is having to hang out with Bingley and Caroline and Mr. Darcy the whole time. So, she comes to get to know them a bit. Caroline is crazy jealous of Lizzie because of all the attention Darcy is giving her. Caroline is thirsty for Mr. Darcy. She wants to lock it up, and then literally takes to abusing Elizabeth anytime she’s out of the room just to try to make herself look better which–

Molly: I did not catch on to any of this when I was reading the book. I just have to say that for most of the book, Volume I, where I was like, “Caroline is wing manning Darcy.” She wants him to get with Lizzie. They’re best friends. I didn’t get it. 

Becca: I think this was the point in this story where you started to get it? 

Molly: Yeah, I remember. I was like, “Oh, wait, she doesn’t like Lizzie? Oh, wait.”

Ghenet: [laughs] There’s a few mentions of it, where her affection for one sister was far outweighed by her jealousy of the other of like, Darcy paying attention to Lizzie, and then Caroline trying to get his attention, and then it’s not working. So, she’s going to go needle Lizzie, and then they end up having quite a few of these playful conversations where Caroline’s trying to make her look dumb, but actually, she just reveals more of her character, and Darcy is like, “Oh, hey, I like you. That’s cool.” 

They have a conversation about the accomplishments of women, which is really hilarious. Caroline starts soliloquizing on all of the things that an accomplished woman should do like, being able to play music, and speak multiple languages, and all of these things. Darcy’s like, “Oh, yes and read and all of these things.” 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Then Lizzie is like, “Well, no wonder you’ve never met any because women like that don’t exist.” Both of them are like, “Oh.” They’re quite surprised at her playfulness. It is very funny. The more they interact, the more you see Darcy is bewitched by Lizzie and her very playful nature. She’s very playful with him. 

Molly: She is. In the 2005, in this scene, when he says that they should read, she snaps her book shut so fast, I was like, “Oh, my God, that’s iconic.”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly:  But then, in the 1995– first of all the 2005 cuts this to 45 seconds’ worth of material, and the 1995, it’s like an entire episode is just men at Netherfield. The part that I’m remembering is Lizzie looking for people and she walks in and Darcy’s just alone at the billiards room. 

Ghenet: Yeah. Just playing pool by himself. 

Molly: By himself and he is staring at her, and she doesn’t say anything, and she turns and runs away. 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Molly: Iconic. 

Ghenet: Also, when in the 1995, when she first appears at Netherfield, the way that he’s very startled, when she just turns up, he’s like, [crosstalk] 

Becca: She looks like a little Mountain Lady in the 2005. In the 1995, you see Elizabeth arriving at Netherfield. She’s got mud on her skirt, she’s a bit sweaty, but it just looks like she took a walk. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Becca: A long walk in a muddy field. Whereas in the 2005 version, she’s got her hair down, her clothes are a little raggedy and dirty. It looks like she fought her way there. 

[laughter] 

Becca: They’re like, “Hey, this is improper.”

Molly: Yeah.

Ghenet: “This is a bit too much, Lizzie. Let’s reel back in.” But yeah, so they have a lot of these conversations, and one of the other great moments is when they’re talking about Darcy’s faults, and he has that great line where he says, “My good opinion once lost is lost forever.” That is the line that we all associate with Fitzwilliam Darcy [crosstalk].

Molly: What a weird thing to say. 

[laughter] 

Molly: Trying to impress this girl, I guess he’s actively trying to make himself not try to impress her, I guess. He’s like, “What can I say that will solidify my hatred of her so that I don’t fall in love with her?”

Ghenet: [laughs] So, Lizzie and Darcy are getting their flirt on. Caroline’s really annoyed with it. Then eventually, Jane gets better, and they had to back not before finding out though that Bingley is planning on having a ball, which Lydia and Kitty are very, very excited about. Then, we have Mr. Bennet come in, and he says, “Oh, I hope you’ve planned a nice dinner because we have a guest and it is–”

Molly: Dun, dun, dun!

Becca: Our king. Our king of social discomfort and sexism. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Mr. Collins is the cousin of the Bennet family, and he is due to inherit the estate when good old Mr. Bennet kicks the bucket. It’s quite a sensitive topic in the house, particularly for Mrs. Bennet. Mr. Bennet says that he got a letter from Collins who explained that he’s recently been ordained and he has a little home to call his own, and he is under the patronage of Lady Catherine de Bourgh. I almost said it the way you said it in the–

Molly: [in a British accent] Lady Catherine de Bourgh!

Becca: [in a British accent] Lady Catherine de Bourgh! 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Basically, he wants to make amends because his dad and Mr. Bennet didn’t really get on. So, he comes for a visit and makes it plain that he has every intention of selecting a wife from one of the daughters. First wants to pick the oldest and the best for himself, and then Mrs. Bennet is like, “Oh, she’s taken. I’m sorry.” So, he immediately is like, “Great, Elizabeth.” He is very tall with formal manners and a grave air as it’s explained in the book, and is very socially awkward, we come to find. Mr. Bennet teases Mr. Collins at dinner about whether or not he practices his manners and complimenting ladies. Mr. Collins doesn’t really get that it’s a joke, and it’s just like, “Oh, well, yes. I like to practice them, but not so much that they seem like they’re rehearsed,” and it’s just like, “Oh, you sweet baby boy. He’s making fun of you,” and he just does not get it. Yeah, he’s an interesting character. 

Becca: There’s a lot of different ways to interpret Mr. Collins, and how well meaning he is, how well intentioned he is, how much his social awkwardness comes from genuine lack of ability to understand how other people are thinking and feeling, or internal focus on himself and love for himself.

Molly: Right. It’s very open to interpretation. One has to wonder, did Jane Austen not know any just like normal, nice, good, average men, because Darcy is so socially awkward that it makes him an asshole, Collins is so socially awkward that it makes him an asshole in different ways, obviously. And Darcy overcomes it and Collins overcomes it, too. But I have come to like Collins, maybe because the most recent thing I’ve watched is the 2005 that– 

Becca: That exactly why you like him. [laughs] 

Molly: Yeah, because I really hated him before he was terrible under 1995. 

Ghenet: Hard agree. I am inclined to read it more as he’s just a little bit socially awkward and oblivious. He holds himself just to a higher standard as a clergyman, and also just what sort of society dictates, but it never seems malicious, in my head the way I read it. But just his whole attitude is just very– It’s pretty awkward. So, he sets his sights on Lizzie, and then the next day, the girls and Mr. Collins go into Meryton, and they meet yet another gentleman, Mr. Wickham, who is–

Molly: Hottie hot.

Ghenet: A stone-cold flax, according to pretty much every Bennet.

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: Whenever anyone’s talking about Wickham is like, “Oh, yeah, yeah. He’s hot.”

Molly: He’s hot. He’s an asshole, but he is so good looking

Ghenet: He’s very two faced, but boy, is he attractive? Yeah, there’s an awful lot of that. They meet Mr. Wickham, and while they’re speaking to Mr. Wickham, Mr. Darcy and Bingley come along, and Darcy, by avoiding looking at Lizzie because he’s uncomfortable, sees Mr. Wickham, and then both changed color, one looks white and the other red. We don’t really know which one changed color, but Lizzie notices it straight away and is like, “Oh, what’s going on here? I must find out.” 

Then, there’s a party at the Phillips later, and Wickham basically spills the tea about his relationship with Darcy, basically that he gave with Wickham’s living away, and Wickham now has to join the army just so he can have a living and–

Molly: Ah, boohoo, poor Wickham. 

Ghenet: Obviously, at this stage, we don’t know that he’s trash. We find out he’s trash later. 

Molly and Becca: Spoiler alert. 

Ghenet: Wickham is trash.

Becca: If you’re listening to this episode, you’re going to find out what happens at the end of Pride and Prejudice. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Then, I wrote immediately under that in my notes. Lucy has some serious confirmation bias, because she straightaway is, “He did this terrible thing. So, now, he’s just terrible all around.” Lizzie tells Jane the juicy gossip and they have a whole conversation about it, about what could be true, what couldn’t be true. Jane wants to believe there’s good in both, and Lizzie is like, “No, you have to pick a side.” Wickham’s been a bit naughty there and he’s gotten Lizzie to be in his corner.

Becca: It’s worth noting that he definitely got her there by buttering her up, flirting with her, and making her feel pretty.

Ghenet: That goes a long way. 

Molly: It does. Also, this book is not very big on the gray areas of morality or at least Lizzie Bennet is not. She very much was like, “You’re either good or you’re bad,” which is, I guess, what the book is actually about in the end. Because Lizzie is also a little gray area in the terms of morality, and she doesn’t see that she’s like, “I am good, Jane is good, Lydia bad, Wickham bad or Wickham good, Darcy bad. Darcy bad, Wickham bad.  

Ghenet: There’s only two categories. There’s no gray area in the middle. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Then we come to a ball at Netherfield. Lizzie is really excited to dance with Mr. Wickham, but Mr. Collins engages her for the first two dances. Jane is really excited to dance with Bingley and all everyone’s excited. We find out that Wickham hasn’t actually come. Collins dances with Lizzie, but he’s not very good. He’s very awkward. Then, while Lizzie is speaking to Charlotte, Mr. Darcy comes up and asks her to dance. Elizabeth, she says yes, but mainly because she’s taken by surprise. Charlotte is like, “Well, you probably should be nice to him because he’s pretty high up there. So, just be nice, contain yourself.” Charlotte, ever the pragmatist. 

Yeah, so, then they dance and have a bit of banter, and Lizzie decides to bring up Mr. Wickham which Darcy is not pleased with. It’s a sensitive subject. Then, they’re interrupted by Sir William Lucas who makes a comment about Jane and Bingley. And then, Darcy then starts to pay a bit of attention to them. Caroline interrupts to warn Lizzie against Wickham because apparently, she’s heard that they’re a bit of a thing. Everyone else is up to their usual shenanigans of being incredibly embarrassing, and Lizzie is incredibly embarrassed. Yeah, that’s what happens at the ball, and then we come the next day to quite a serious event in the Bennet house. Mr. Collins decides to propose to Elizabeth Bennet. 

Becca: And it goes wonderfully for all parties involved. 

Molly: Yeah. What a good proposal. 

Ghenet: Yes. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: There it is. Lizzie marries Collins, and it is over.

Ghenet: They all lived happily ever after. [laughs] Ooh, boy, does that go terribly, terribly wrong. He is like– I almost want to say he’s earnest, but he’s not. He’s just very– 

Becca: Practiced. 

Ghenet: Yeah, he’s just assumes that he is going to get a yes, and is like, “I wanted to marry you, because I wanted to make sure that everything was good with this family, because obviously, I’m going to get this house. So, I picked a daughter. That was why. Also, Catherine told me I should get married though. So, yeah, let’s go.” [laughs] Lizzie’s, like, “I’m good. Thanks.”

Molly: He does have a point. No, just to play the devil’s advocate here, he was trying to do the right thing, because literally, if he didn’t marry one of the daughters, they will not get the house, and they don’t. He was trying to do something nice for them, and by all standards of the time, Lizzie should have said yes. But Lizzie Bennet is #notlikeothergirls.

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: She did not do that.

Becca: Yeah. I think what the obvious problem here is that Collins didn’t just propose to Mary because that would have solved everything. 

Molly: Truly, Mary would have been perfect. 

Becca: But I think what’s insulting here is, the assumption that he thinks that she should just be purely grateful that he’s dating to marry her, I think if there were a bit more of a like, “This makes sense. We’d be a good match. I’ll take good care of you and– [crosstalk] 

Molly: “We might not get along, but maybe we could work through it.” 

Becca: Yeah.

Ghenet: Yeah. I think it’s also just like the way that he talks about the violence of his affections, but he’s only known her for three days. [laughs] 

Molly: Yeah. I think that’s how he’s supposed to describe it, but he doesn’t actually feel that way. So, he’s like, “Let me tell you in very proper words how much I love you.” He doesn’t [unintelligible [00:32:24]

Ghenet: And also, the fact that she has to say no multiple times before he gets it. He’s like, “Well, but I know it’s the thing to say no just to–” Lizzie’s like, “No. Please just hear me, no.” 

Molly: Jane Austen, an advocate for consent. 

Ghenet: Yes, there we go. Yeah, that happens. Lizzie says no. She runs off. Mrs. Bennet is having none of it, and she’s determined to convince Lizzie to marry him. She tries to get Mr. Bennet involved to be like, “Make her do it.” Mr. Bennet basically is like, “Well, if you don’t marry him, your mom will never speak to you again. And if you do marry him, I will never speak to you again.” Immediately after this happens, Charlotte comes over to have a little catch-up with Lizzie, and Lydia and kitty intercept her basically tell her everything that’s happening. Mr. Collins, his pride is a bit hurt. So, he decides to just speak to Charlotte because that’s a bit easier. 

He turns his attentions to Charlotte, and then, immediately after that, we find out that Jane got a letter that Bingley have left Netherfield, and she’s quite upset about it, and then immediately after that, we find out that Charlotte and Mr. Collins are engaged. 

Becca: Tough week for Mrs. Bennet. [laughs] 

Ghenet: She does not take it well. She’s very, very upset. Charlotte comes to tell Lizzie, first of all, and Lizzie is really disappointed in her friend, and Charlotte makes a very valid point is that like, she’s 27, she just wants to be married and settled. She is not a romantic like Lizzie that she can’t afford that. So, what started as I think being a bit polite to him just so that it wasn’t all terrible turns into this. 

Becca: Yeah, I think it’s very interestingly written the book in this part because you get the sense that Collins actually does have feelings for Charlotte that he develops. Charlotte sees an opening, and she’s like, “Oh, I could get married,” and she goes in for it. 

Molly: And she’s nice to him. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: Yeah. All it takes is her taking him a little seriously, and he just fawns on her.

Molly: I really like that the book is that way that because he didn’t form a relationship with Lizzie, that was a purely pragmatic decision on his part, and he falls at Charlotte’s feet. He runs to her house first thing in the morning and he’s like, “Charlotte, I must marry you,” and she’s like, “All right, sure.” It’s kind of sweet, he gets his little happy ending. 

Ghenet: And also, that Charlotte does as well, that’s a nice little thing for her. Obviously, is that the ideal man that she wanted to marry? No, but we’ve already discussed again that Charlotte, she is quite pragmatic, and she makes pretty good points about not really having the luxury of being romantic, which I guess a lot of women in this time period would have been in similar situations. It’s just like, sometimes, you have to make [crosstalk] 

Molly: Yeah, I might be misremembering this, but I feel like in the book– in the 2005 movie, she’s like, “I can’t be romantic.” I think in the book, she says, “I’m not romantic,” but she’s like, “I’m not really looking for love. I just am looking for a comfortable home,” and she gets that. So, more power to her.

Ghenet: Yeah. I think it’s great for Charlotte, but obviously, it has a bit of a knock-on effect in that there’s something different in their relationship now, which is a little bit [crosstalk] 

Becca: I know how much she is jumping ahead, but what we see when we actually go to visit Charlotte and Collins is that Charlotte has become an absolute master at avoiding her husband. 

Ghenet: Yes, which is amazing. But she’s happy. That’s the point. She made her choice and she’s happy with that choice. But obviously, in the moment, it is a bit of a shock. On top of that, Bingley is gone, so Jane’s chances are also slightly ruined. So, poor Mrs. Bennet, she’s like, “I’ve gone from having two daughters potentially getting married to zero daughters getting married, and we’re just in the same position we were in,” at the beginning of this book, like “What is happening?”

Molly: Poor Jane.

Ghenet: Yeah. I literally wrote poor Jane. Her mother seems very trying in my notes, because it’s like she won’t shut up about Mr. Bingley and how Jane could have got him, and it’s all very–

Becca: Yeah, imagine you break up with someone and all your mother talks about is how you blew it. 

Molly: Oh, man. I would not be able to handle that. 

Ghenet: Not even just blew it, but also, because you’ve blown it, your whole family’s future was ruined if your dad dies. It’s just very– 

Becca: It’s a dicey situation. 

Ghenet: Now that Mr. Bingley and his whole family have left as well as Mr. Darcy, Mr. Wickham has absolutely no qualms about talking smack behind his back. He starts telling everyone his sad tale, and then we get to Christmas. The Gardiners come for Christmas, which is, is it, Mrs. [crosstalk] 

Molly: Brother and sister-in-law. 

Becca: Mrs. Bennet has two siblings, we mean, in the book. Mr. Bennet does not. Mrs. Phillips is the aunt in town. She’s married to a lawyer. 

Ghenet: Yes. 

Becca: They’re a little bit more middle class, but Mrs. Phillips were led to believe is a lot like Mrs. Bennet. Then, you have Mr. Gardiner, and Mr. Gardiner’s quite successful in trade. He’s also technically middle class, but he has a little bit more disposable income, and he’s scored a young wife, who is– 

Molly: Dope as heck. 

Becca: Neither adaptation fully leans in on this, but she’s kind of the cool young aunt like you could place her in her late 20s, early 30s, and Lizzie and Jane are in their early 20s. So, it makes sense. 

Ghenet: They come for Christmas, and then they decide that Jane should come back to London with them just because. Mrs. Gardiner gets to meet Mr. Wickham and warns Lizzie to be on her guard a bit and not being proper, because while she might be attracted to him, their financial situation means that they can’t really do that. Lizzie treats it as a bit of a joke, but then she’s like, “Oh, no, okay. Yeah, that’s fine.” 

Jane leaves with the Gardiners, and then Lizzie is pretty bored. 

Becca: So are the readers. 

Ghenet: Yeah. Then, fast forward to March when Lizzie goes to Hunsford to see Charlotte. We get to see Mr. Collins in his element, and Charlotte is also in her element. She’s the queen of the manor, she loves it, and as you said before, she’s really good at avoiding her husband. There’s this great line where she says, “Elizabeth admired the command of countenance with which Charlotte talked about the helpfulness of the exercise and owned. She encouraged it as much as possible.”

Molly: Mm-hmm.

Becca: She also has a side room that she’s deemed her own, which is the ugliest room. So, she knows Collins will almost never want to go in there.

Ghenet: Even if it’s at the back of the house, and if it’s at the back of the house, he won’t be there because he wants to be at the front of the house so he can see everyone going by which is a hobby of his.

Becca: [laughs] Oh, my God. Oh, my God, wait. Collins is such a suburban housewife.

Molly: He is a suburban housewife.

Becca: He is looking out the window to spy on everyone in his neighborhood. He’s sucking up to the person he thinks is the most important person in town. He’s gardening all the time, and he’s slut shaming all the time. He’s just like-

[laughter] 

Becca: – a pearl-clutching suburban housewife. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yes. He is indeed. There’s multiple instances while Lizzie is visiting that they talk about how he’s standing outside just waiting for people to go by, and that’s what he does with his day. They are invited to dinner at Rosings, and they’re finally going to meet [in a British accent] Lady Catherine de Bourgh. I’m going to do it every time. 

Molly: Excellent. 

Ghenet: Mr. Collins is like, “Don’t worry about your dress.” Just she likes to have the different classes maintain. “So, just wear whatever is nicest, don’t worry.” 

Molly: What a dick.

Ghenet: Then, while they’re walking, he’s pointing everything out and telling Lizzie how much it costs, because like you do. So, they’re there for a little bit. They go to Rosings to dine for quite a bit. Lizzie has a very– because she comes to a conclusion about a Lady Catherine’s character, and it’s just because she’s a very strong character which Lizzie is too. So, I imagine that’s probably why it’s a bit like everyone is fawning all over Lady Catherine, and Lizzie is not about that life. 

Molly: They butt head a lot, because they’re both two powerful women. 

Ghenet: Yeah, they do. They’re butt heads. Lady Catherine is not used to people talking back to her. So, she gets very confused when Lizzie has no qualms about talking back to her, and she is just very surprised every time that happens, and it’s very entertaining to read. Then, we come to find out that Mr. Darcy is coming to Rosings with his cousin, Colonel Fitzwilliam. Darcy and Fitzwilliam arrive and they hang out a lot at Rosings with Lizzie and Charlotte begins to suspect that Darcy might have a little thing, because she’s a bit like, “Why is he hanging around here? He’s never come to visit me. What’s going on?” 

Becca: More proof that Charlotte is amazing. She really calls this whole thing.

Ghenet: She’s not sure but she’s a bit like, “I’m going to pay a little bit of attention here.” There’s a lot of banter with Lizzie and Mr. Darcy and Fitzwilliam to which I pretty much just wrote in my notes, “Lizzie, you flirt, because she’s hardcore flirting with him and she doesn’t even realize it. But he is thoroughly enjoying himself. Then, on one of Lizzie’s little walks, she bumps into Fitzwilliam, and Fitzwilliam accidentally lets it slip that Mr. Darcy played a role in separating Jane and Bingley, and it upsets her a lot. So, they’re supposed to be going to dinner at Rosings that evening, but Lizzie is really not feeling well. So, she’s like, “No, no, I can’t.” So, they all go and she stays at home. Then, all of a sudden, Mr. Darcy walks in and proposes marriage to her. [laughs] 

Molly: Oh, my God. 

Becca: What a record scratch.

Molly: What a dumb boy. [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: [laughs] He tells her about that he’s been in love with her for months and that even though she’s has terrible connections, and her family’s not great, and all this stuff like, he wants to marry her– 

Becca: Convey I have struggled and will not do, you must allow me to tell you how ardently I love you.

Molly: I admire and I love you. 

Becca: That paragraph happens and then Lizzie’s in stunned silence, and then Jane Austen goes on to describe how insulting he is to her and all these insults he says to her, but we don’t actually see what he says exactly. 

Molly: She has. She’s like, he was rude, he did this, this, this, and this, which is interesting that when you talk about the adaptations, when I watched the 1995, it was felt so right that I was like, “This is how it was written in the book.” Then, when I watched the 2005, I was like, “This is wrong,” and I went back and read the book, and I was like, “Actually, this is right too. They’re both right.” [laughs]

Ghenet: Yes, he proposes, and it’s all very dramatic, and Lizzie is hugely pissed off. A, because she thinks he went about it in a terrible way, and he’s being very ungentlemanly. But B, also, because she’s really pissed off that he ruined Jane’s chances, and that very much plays into it. She basically turns him down. They exchange some words in which Lizzie very firmly says that he is the last man in the world who she can ever be prevailed upon to marry, and he just leaves because he doesn’t know what to do with that. 

Becca: Well, it broke his heart. He just doesn’t understand that [crosstalk]

Ghenet: It did.

Molly: Well, also before she said that, she brought up Wickham and his misfortunes at the hand of Darcy, which pissed Darcy off, pissed him off first, stomped on his heart, second, and then he was like, “I need to write it down instead.”

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah, he runs away. Then, the next day, Lizzie decides to go for a walk and Mr. Darcy turns up and presents her with a letter in which he– Well, I guess it absolves him of what he perceives as his wrongdoing against Jane. He’s like, “Well, you are her sister. So, if you think I’m wrong here, then maybe I’m wrong here.” He tells us what really happened with Wickham and turns out, Wickham is a scoundrel. Lizzie is in a tizzy. She doesn’t know what to do with all these feelings she’s feeling, because she is feeling all of them. 

Then, she decides that if Darcy is not lying about Mr. Wickham that he can’t be lying about the other things, so, she’s just feeling a lot. By the time she’s through with this letter, she’s quite ready to go home. She finishes out her stay in Hunsford where they are, and then they head back. They collect Jane on the way, and then everyone is back at Longbourn. Then, there’s a bit more drama because what does this book need but more drama. So, Lydia has been invited to Brighton, where all the officers have retired too. Everyone’s leaving Meryton, and pretty much all the girls except for Mary and Lizzie and Jane are really upset because they don’t want the officers to leave. Lizzie is like, “Oh, this is not good.” So, she tries to go convince her dad not to let it happen. He’s a bit like, “Yeah, whatever.” [laughs] 

Ghenet: She’s not going to be happy unless she goes and also maybe going will teach her own insignificance. It’s just like, ooh, oh, my.

Molly: If only it did. 

Ghenet: Right. If only that plan had worked. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: She’s off. Everyone is just a bit, they just don’t really know what to do with themselves because all of their entertainment has basically left. The Gardiners are going to the Peak District up to Derbyshire, and Elizabeth goes with them. They, through various plot points, end up going to visit Pemberley, the home of Mr. Darcy. 

Molly: Mr. Darcy. But he won’t be there. She has a he will not be there.

Becca: Chekhov’s Pemberley. 

Molly: Mm-hmm. 

Ghenet: She’s like, “I’m not going if he’s going to– Just don’t make me–” They get a tour of Pemberley by Mrs. Reynolds, the housekeeper, who paints a very different picture of Mr. Darcy then of what everyone thinks of him in Hertfordshire. Lizzie, who was like in her feelings about being at Pemberley because she has several moments where she’s like, “Even now, I could have been his mistress. Wait, hold on. What?”

Molly: [laughs]

Ghenet: She’s just trying to figure out how she feels about this whole situation. 

Molly: She’s stressed. She’s hot and heavy for this landscaping. 

Becca: Oh, my God, Lizzie Bennet and her fricking love of lawns, and woods, and lakes.

Ghenet: She does love a good walk, doesn’t she? 

Molly: She does. 

Becca: She is very fond of walking.

Ghenet: [laughs] Yes, she is. She’s in her feelings, and then all of a sudden, she turns a corner and who should appear, but Mr. Darcy. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: They’re both very shy.

Molly: They’re like Spock shit. This is the opposite of what I wanted to happen right now. 

Ghenet: [laughs] We know. It’s so awkward. Especially since she went to such pains to be like, “Is he going to be there?”

Molly: They were like, “No, no, no. Promise.” 

Ghenet: Great. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Surprise. Yes. So, he’s there, she’s really shocked. He runs away, and then he comes back and he’s really polite, and he’s talking to the Gardiners, and then he asks if he can introduce her to his sister, and she’s like, “Oh, my God. What does this mean?” Then, I wrote under this as well. Did Darcy tell his sister about Lizzie? Does Georgiana know everything? 

Becca: Oh. 

Molly: Absolutely, absolutely. 

Becca: Yes. There’s no question that there was a moment when he returned to Pemberley after the whole Rosings fiasco, and he’s just sitting there listening to Regency Era Adele with his pint of Regency Era ice cream being like, “You don’t understand.” 

Molly: Georgie’s like, “It’s going to be okay.” 

Becca: “She hates me.” 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: “She doesn’t hate you. She just hates– [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: “She told me she hates me.” [laughs] 

Molly: “Eat your ice cream, Darcy.” 

Ghenet: That’s literally it.

Becca: [laughs]

Ghenet: Yeah, Lizzie just doesn’t know what to do, Darcy doesn’t know what to do but they rally. It’s also at this point that Mr. And Mrs. Gardiner start suspecting that something has happened between them. The very next day, Darcy and his sister, and Mr. Bingley come visit Lizzie and it’s all very exciting, and then Lizzie and her aunt go visit Pemberley, and Caroline is also there. Caroline is salty about Elizabeth Bennet’s presence at Pemberley. She is not having it. She’s so annoyed.

Becca: We’ve talked about this sometimes on our podcasts, but one of the constant through lines through all of Pride and Prejudice is how bad Caroline Bingley is at flirting.

Ghenet: She is. If you’re going to flirt with a guy, maybe don’t bring up the guy he hates.

Becca: And also, undercutting the woman he cares about in front of him isn’t going to make him care about her less. 

Molly: Well, she seems to think it will because she’s like, “Oh, maybe, I’ll convince him to hate her too.”

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: Good idea.

Ghenet: So, Caroline is really salty, and they end up having a really nice time. Except for her, obviously, and Lizzie just is very sweet on Darcy and Georgianna, and he seems like a completely different person, and she’s just like, “I don’t even know what to do with myself now.” They’re meant to be dining with them the next day. But before they do that, some letters arrived from Jane and it’s got some very, very upsetting news. Lydia has run off with Mr. Wickham. 

Molly: Plot twist. 

Ghenet: Yeah, plot twist. Darcy happens to be around when this happens, and she basically tells him everything. Her and the Gardiners return to Longbourn in order to assist the Bennets in the whole Lydia debacle. Everyone’s emotions are running very, very high. Very high. Then, eventually, we find out that Lydia and Wickham are going to be married, because that’s the whole point, they ran off together, and they didn’t get married, which is very sinful in this time period. It’s a big old no, no. 

Lydia and Wickham eventually come for a visit, and they’re both very unbothered by the whole situation. Lydia’s just like, “I got me a husband,” and that’s all she cares about. Then, she drops the bomb that Mr. Darcy was at their wedding. After Lizzie left Pemberley, we have no idea what’s been happening with Darcy, but this is quite a big surprise in the book. Not so much in the 1995 one because, it’s hardly known what he’s doing, but we get snippets of him, don’t we, until that point?

Becca: Yeah, and to be fair to the 2005 adaptation, that adaptation has two hours to do what the 1995 has six hours to do. 

Molly: Right.

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: One of my main critiques of 2005 has been and will always be there’s not enough Wickham in it, because you need that counterbalance to Darcy to show Lizzie’s prejudice against Darcy. It’s in the title. I don’t know if you noticed. 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: One of the things that’s a little muddled in the 2005 is that there isn’t that same buildup of tension, because it’s not that Lydia and Wickham are missing for this long, extended period of time, no one knows where they are, people are already starting to whisper, and then they get married, and it’s the last saving grace before absolute ruin.

Molly: She’s gone for 45 seconds.

Ghenet: You don’t really get the same that they were pretty desperate. It causes a really big scandal and it’s going to have an effect on all of them, their futures, and who they’re able to marry because of it because no one’s going to want to attach themselves to this family. Once Lydia drops this hint that Mr. Darcy was there, Lizzie is like, “Hold on.” She writes to Mrs. Gardiner to make her tell her everything, and she gets a letter back that’s basically like, “Yeah, Mr. Darcy saved us all. He didn’t want anyone to know. But I thought you knew about this already, but since you didn’t, obviously, I’m just going to–” 

Becca: By the way, he wants to marry you, hardcore. [laughs] 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah, by the way.

Molly: Yeah. I love that little sub— at the end, it was a postscript. Almost, it was like, by the way, “He’s very handsome, and nice. You should reevaluate.” 

Ghenet: Yeah. Mr. Bingley comes back out of the blue- 

Molly: Thank God. 

Ghenet: -which is very surp– The Bennets l;ke to pretend that they don’t care but they totally care.

Molly: Especially, Jane. She’s like, “I’m fine. I’m fine.” She’s like in an episode of Friends where Ross is fine, The One Where Ross is Fine, and she’s just like, “I’m fine.”

Becca: I’m fine.

Molly: I’m fine. [laughs] 

Becca: But this part also has one of my favorite lines in this book which is when Kitty is like, “Oh, Mr. Bingley is coming back, and what’s-his-name?”

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: That tall, proud one from before. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah, Mr. Bingley is back. It takes a couple tries but eventually, Jane and Bingley finally get engaged. Everyone’s happy. It’s all very exciting. I think Mrs. Bennet says this really great thing where she’s like, “I know you couldn’t be so pretty for nothing.” It’s like, “Thanks, Mom.”

Molly: An encapsulation of Mrs. Bennet’s personality in one line. 

Ghenet: And then, something quite shocking happened. Someone else turns up. Catherine de Bourgh who turns up because she’s heard a rumor that apparently, Lizzie is engaged to Mr. Darcy, and she’s having none of it. So, she’s like, “No, this isn’t happening.” She comes down to basically tell Lizzie to back off or she’ll have a word to say about it. Lizzie defends herself against Lady Catherine being actually really quite rude. 

Becca: Like all the worst instinct undercurrents of this book, the ones that Jane Austen’s poking at and satirizing are articulated in that scene in a way that just makes you go, “Whoo,” and it makes you see how ridiculous.

Molly: Can you imagine someone you hate asks you out, and you’re like, “No,” and then someone comes up to you, and is like, “Are you dating this person?” You’re like, “No,” but they are convinced that you are. How disorienting that would be? 

Ghenet: But also, that you kind of do want to– 

Molly: You do and you said no, because you were upset in the moment, but then they proved themselves to you?

Ghenet: Yeah.

Becca: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yes. Catherine de Bourgh is not having it. She’s really not having it. But Lizzie stands her ground and it’s like, “This is none of your business. Please leave my house.” So, she does. Then, Mr. Bennet wants to talk to Lizzie because he got a letter from Mr. Collins who was trying to warn them about Lady Catherine, and it makes some references to Lizzie being engaged to Mr. Darcy and the whole time, Mr. Bennet thinks it’s a hilarious joke and teases Lizzie about it. Lizzie just like don’t know what to do. 

Molly: She’s like, “Ha, ha, ha. That’s so funny, that he would think that.” 

Ghenet: “I don’t know where that came from. Okay, I’m going to go now. Bye.” She’s like, “Please get me out of here.” I think it’s the very next day, he and Bingley arrived, and Bingley’s like, “Let’s all go for a walk.” But while they’re on this walk, Jane and Bingley are walking ahead, and Lizzie finally is like, “I have to say thank you for all of the stuff.” They have a whole conversation about their feelings. He says that thing where he’s like, “You were too generous to trifle with me. If your feelings are what they were,” and long story short, they’re not what they were. Lizzie is in love with him, he’s still in love with her, and then we don’t actually find out 100% that they’re engaged until Lizzie tells Jane later. She’s like,” BT-dubs, here’s what happened on our little walk today.”

Molly: He never says, “Will you marry me?”

Ghenet: Nope.

Molly: She never says, “Yeah.” 

Becca: Molly was so furious when we got to that point. 

Becca: And you were like, “So, what happens now? Are they engaged?” I’m like, “What?”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: And then, when we were watching the 1995 one, we got to this part in the show, and you were like, “Do you think it’s more clear here than it was in the book?” I’m like, “No. It’s not more clear. They literally never have–”

Ghenet: To be fair, it’s not clear in the 2005 one either. Because literally, he says all these things. She takes his hand and it’s like– [crosstalk] 

Molly: His hands are cold. 

Ghenet: New scene.  

Molly: Oh, my God.

Becca: Cut to Mr. Bennet being like, “What? Him?”

Ghenet: Yeah. But that essentially what happens in the book is they go for this walk. They’re talking about their feelings, and then Lizzie later tells Jane, “By the way, I’m engaged to Mr. Darcy.” They come back again the next day and Bingley is an ultimate wingman, and is like, “Is there any place where Lizzie and Mr. Darcy can get lost today?”

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Then Mrs. Bennet is like, “Oh, yeah. Well, we heard Kitty and so and so can go on this other walk,” and Mr. Bingley– 

Molly: He’s like, “Kitty doesn’t want to go.” 

Ghenet: Lizzie and Darcy just go off. Darcy then asks Mr. Bennet for permission, and Mr. Bennet just doesn’t know what to do with it. [laughs] Then, he has a conversation with Lizzie. Lizzie basically tells him everything, and then goes to tell her mom who also cannot believe it. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Then, we get a bunch of letters to various people to give us a nice little update on what’s happening. Basically, it’s like the epilogue of what happens. 

Molly: Where are they now? 

Ghenet: Yeah. The Collins’s have come down to Hertfordshire to escape Lady Catherine’s wrath. Lizzie and Mr. Darcy are at Pemberley. Mr. Bennet and Kitty visit a lot. Jane and Bingley only stay at Netherfield for a year and they move much closer to Darcy and Lizzie, which is good. Kitty, because she’s not spending time with Lydia anymore actually becomes a better human. Lydia and Wickham are constantly asking for money, and they always overstay their welcomes. Then, Georgiana gets really close to Lizzie, and she finds it really funny listening to Lizzie speak to her brother like a human and tease him, which she’s just like, “Oh–

Molly: Yeah, I love that. She like, “[crosstalk] have a personality.” 

Ghenet: Yeah, we find that about all of the families, and there’s this great note where they say, given that they were part of the reason that Lizzie and Darcy got together in the end, the Gardiners have always been welcome at Pemberley, and then that is the end of the book. 

Molly: Yeah. Yay.

Becca: Yay. [applause] That was the quickest I’ve ever seen anyone get through all of the entire plot of Pride and Prejudice without sacrificing the detail.

Ghenet: I tried really hard. It’s a hefty book, and honestly, I feel like some of the magic of it is in a lot of those details. So, when we’re talking about adaptations and stuff when things have to be cut or trimmed, we’re talking about how many adaptations exist of Pride and Prejudice. 

Molly: So many.

Ghenet: It’s such a dense book, but it’s a journey that was really enjoyable to read. Watching them at point A and knowing how they get to point B is so fascinating. 

Becca: Absolutely. 

Ghenet: Hello, me again. Molly, Becca, and I carried on talking about adaptations for a while after this, but I’m going to save that for the next episode. There was just so much to say. In the meantime, you can find the podcast over on Instagram @bookbetterpodcast, and on Twitter @bookbetterpod. Come on over and join the conversation. Until next time, thanks for listening.