S1, E04 – Crazy Rich Asians: The Film

Full Episode Transcript

Ghenet: Hey, it’s Ghenet. We’re back with Part 2 of my conversation with my friend, Michelle, all about Crazy Rich Asians. Before we jump in, I just want to give a shoutout to Gem and Noemi, our very first patrons on Patreon. That’s exciting. If you want to support the podcast just like Gem and Noemi, head to patreon.com/bookbetterpodcast to find out more. Now, let’s get on to the episode, Part 2 of my conversation with Michelle all about Crazy Rich Asians. Happy listening.

[music]

Love to really to talk about the Astrid’s plot in the book is very different in that Michael, she sees the text message on his phone, and then she’s very paranoid, but even then, she’s still like, “Oh, God. My parents are going to be so disappointed.” She’s thinking about how other people are going to feel about it because she just doesn’t want to disappoint anyone. Then, she finds out, she teams up with her ex-boyfriend/ex-fiancé, Charlie Wu, who makes an appearance in the post credits in the film and that’s it. 

Michelle: I would still like the second film. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Literally, just so we can have more of that please. Because the bedroom eyes they were making at each other in that five seconds is phenomenal. In the book, she recruits him and they find Michael who’s moved out, because she confronts him about the affair, and he’s deuces just pretty much what happens in the film. But there’s much more to the story, in that he actually lies about the affair, like there is no affair. He just wanted out of the marriage.

Michelle: I really wish Astrid had a bigger part in Crazy Rich Asians, the film. Because like you said, her storyline is amazing in a book. For me, I felt it dealt with the concept of like– I think I’ve talked about this online before, the concept of face. Like losing face, saving face, it’s like a big thing in Chinese culture, where you present yourself in a certain way. I suppose it comes back to the whole ambassador role that we seem to play, but it’s to always present yourself in a good light, because you’re affecting the way your family’s portrayed in the community, and protecting the way you come across in public. 

In Astrid’s case, yes, she is a people pleaser for that reason. So, she does all the charity work, and she’s trying to make sure her husband doesn’t feel less of a man, which is a whole other conversation that toxic masculinity, because he clearly does not feel enough of a man because his wife, Astrid, is super rich, and she does all the things. She’s so loved, and he’s effectively what he sees as a failed businessman. So, I really liked how Astrid’s storyline came across in that.

Ghenet: Yeah, I did, too. I vastly disapprove of the way that Michael felt the need to go about it. 

Michelle: Yeah. Oh, totally. 

Ghenet: Yeah. He pretends to have an affair so that she will divorce him. But when that moment happens, the fact that she’s like, “I know you’re having an affair,” and he’s straightaway like, “I’ll go.” He was ready. I’m surprised he didn’t already have his bags packed. He was waiting for that moment. 

Michelle: He wanted a way out that wasn’t a dramatic, his fault/her fault vibe and he still wanted to be in control of the situation.

Ghenet: Yeah. Instead of, I don’t know, just having a conversation with her. Imagine if they just sat down and been like, “Look, babe, I’m struggling with this. I feel a little bit like your family doesn’t take me seriously. They’re always asking me for tech support and that’s not what I do. Can you just have my back a little bit?” Would that not have been a productive conversation?

Michelle: Exactly. But obviously, he didn’t feel that he could have that conversation because he just wanted to be seen as the man which– That’s a whole thing in itself. But I think the way Astrid’s storyline ended up being in the films compared to the book, so for me, she was one of my favorite parts of her works. I love her so much. 

Ghenet: So, did you not like her as much in the film? 

Michelle: The way it was developed in the film ended up making her feel like pretty empty and lackluster. Obviously, we still love Astrid/Gemma Chan. We still love her. But she is not as multidimensional, and with that important plot, and all the messages it conveys. In the film, it just didn’t come across that way.

Ghenet: Yeah. She definitely got sidelined a little bit, which I suppose in one sense, I do understand because there’s so many characters you have to have a focus in a film like this. Obviously, because it’s a romantic comedy, you need to have the cute little couple. So, I get it. 

Michelle: Hopefully, they’re setting up for film two.

Ghenet: Yeah, she has a much bigger role in later books. So, hopefully that will translate a bit. For all we know, even though, obviously, they decided that he was in fact having an affair in the film, maybe there’s more to it. Later in the book, Michael goes through some changes. No spoilers for anyone. 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah, he makes some choices. But yeah, I did think that was really, really interesting. Then, I have my, in my notes, I have, “Michael is the epitome of a coward,” and then, I also have underneath that, “Astrid’s family is kind of trash, but could he not just talk to her about it?” It would have been a difficult conversation, but she would have done anything for him. So, she is bit [crosstalk] 

Michelle: Yeah, supposedly married in a relationship, all you have to do, dude, is sit down and have the chat. 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah. 

Michelle: Have a chat, maybe, make her a cup of tea, [unintelligible [00:05:53] earrings that are [crosstalk] 

[laughter] 

Michelle: Hopefully, with the way they’ve shown Astrid in the film, it doesn’t put people off. That’s one where obviously, she’ll be the focal point. But I don’t know if they’ve done her a disservice by having her really reduced as a role in the film.

Ghenet: I think it’s complicated, isn’t it? Because obviously, the films do need to stand alone, because you don’t know how much they’re going to– 

Michelle: Mm. Oh, yeah. 

Ghenet: –how long it’s going to take to make the other ones or whatever. So, in that sense, you do need to tie everything up in a little bow. Yes, I agree with you about some of the changes that they made to her storyline, but that moment in the movie at the end, I don’t know if you remember this, when we went to go see this movie, when she has that great line where she’s like, “But let’s be clear. Our marriage didn’t work because you’re a coward, and it’s not my job to make you a man.” 

Michelle: Yeah. I loved it. That was iconic. 

Ghenet: It was iconic. Everyone– 

Michelle: [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: We did. 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yes. But also, everyone in the movie theater was like, “Yes.” Everyone was cheering. Points were made. 

Michelle: Points were made. 

Ghenet: But Astrid’s reaction to it in the book is a much softer reaction, and she is begging him to say, and she’s trying to– obviously, they have these conversations about it, but she’s still on that people pleaser vibe kind of and she hasn’t really found herself in that sense. So, it was definitely a choice to then change that in the film and have it be like, “Boom, here we are. This is how I feel. I’m having the last word. We’re done now.” Hair flip, put on my expensive earrings, and walk out. 

Michelle: Yeah, she’s an icon. I love her so much. I love her so, so much. 

Ghenet: Yeah. She’s pretty phenomenal. So, speaking of Astrid’s ending, let’s talk for a second about Rachel and Nick’s ending, because those are very, very different from the book and from the film. In the book, as we talked about before, the sequence of events is a little bit different. It’s over a longer period of time. Rachel finds out some stuff at the wedding that is very distressing to her. She and Nick have an argument about it, and I wrote in my notes, “Oh, Nick, you’re so obtuse.” Also, proposing to fix a problem isn’t really the one, because he decides he’s going to propose to make everything better. If you want to marry someone, cool, but maybe that’s not the way to do it. 

Michelle: I [crosstalk] self. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Anyway, they decided that after the wedding has happened, Nick’s like, “Let’s go away. We’ll just have a nice time together,” and I love this. There’s this moment, Rachel has had it. 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: It’s this moment where they’re sitting on the beach, and they’re eating this food, and they’re having a nice time with each other, and he’s speaking Malay to some of the local people that he gets some food from, and she’s like, “Why didn’t you tell me you spoke Malay?” He’s like, “Oh, you know, I can speak enough to order food or whatever.” She’s like, “You’re literally speaking it fluently. [crosstalk].” 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Then, she goes, “You’re doing it again, Nick,” Rachel said. “Doing what?” “You’re doing that annoying self-deprecating thing. I’m not sure what you mean.” Rachel sighed in exasperation. “You say you don’t speak Malay when I hear you yapping away. You say, “Oh, this old house,” when we’re in a frigging palace. You downplay everything, Nick.” “I don’t even realize when I’m doing it,” Nick’s said. And then, it goes on for a bit, and then he’s like, “Also, we’re not that wealthy,” because obviously the conversation turns to her family’s wealth. She goes, “Oh, well, then what are you exactly? Are you worth hundreds of millions or just billions?”

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Rachel has had it. 

Michelle: That was [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: She’s like, “Can we just be open about this? You’re loaded. Stop pretending it’s not a thing because it’s a thing.” 

Michelle: I don’t know if it felt the same for you, but it drove home how British he is, the education and stuff. You are self-deprecating when you’re British. I am. I never realized I was so much and I’m like, “Why do I do this?” It gets ingrained in you like to never– I wouldn’t even say to humble yourself, but you don’t show off for yourself. 

Ghenet: Yeah, I think talking about money is something that’s already quite awkward but I know amongst my British friends, it’s very uncomfortable at times that I’ve said something. It’s like, “Oh. No, okay, sorry. I won’t do that again. Noted.” They go to– it’s one of his Ah Ma’s properties in Malaysia, and when they get there, Nick’s mother and grandmother are already there. They ruin the proposal. They spill the beans about this family secret that Rachel had no idea about. Rachel literally loses consciousness, and then peaces out to go hide out with Peik Lin. 

Michelle: Mm-hmm.

Ghenet: I just wrote in my notes. “Poor Rachel, imagine finding out you’re about to be proposed to, your boyfriend’s family things you’re trash. And your father, who you grew up believing had to be dead is actually alive and in prison, all in the space of two minutes.” Because literally, it’s a one, two, three punch. 

Michelle: Right. Yeah, exactly. 

Ghenet: It’s crazy. 

Michelle: Wild. 

Ghenet: Then, she gets really angry at her mom, but then her mom obviously has a moment to explain. But then, she also decides that she’s going to go meet her father. She’s like, “I’m here. Let’s go,” which is very intense. 

Michelle: It’s a quick decision, I would say. [giggles]  

Ghenet: It’s a very quick decision. But I guess, when you have some information like that that’s just thrown at you– 

Michelle: You have to make those snap decisions. 

Ghenet: Absolutely. She had a point. She’s like, “I’m already in Singapore. China’s right there.” [giggles] 

Michelle: You don’t want to do two long-distance flights. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah. Could you imagine going back to New York and then being like, “Actually, I’m going to go visit my dad. Kidding.” Yeah. So, then she decides that she’s going to go see her dad. She fully breaks up with Nick, and it’s like, “This is over. Goodbye.” Nick is very depressed. That’s another thing that we don’t see in the film, is that Nick like heartbroken, that this whole situation has happened. He’s cut off his family completely. He’s trying to check in on Rachel. But, obviously, he’s really struggling as well. 

Then, at the end of the book, he does bring Rachel’s mom there so they can have a heart to heart. But it’s a much more hostile meeting, where Rachel’s mom explains the full situation, because I think in the book– and please correct me if I’m wrong. In the book, they don’t know that her mom had an affair. They just know that she ran away from her husband. There’s a warrant out for her for kidnapping or something, the family was very intense, but I don’t think they knew about the affair. 

Michelle: Yeah, no, it’s much more [unintelligible 00:12:48]. 

Ghenet: Rachel’s mom has a chance to explain everything and they kind of reconcile. Nick and Rachel sort of reconcile, but they don’t end the book engaged.

Michelle: Yeah. You have to tie things off, I suppose, in the film. I think when I was making my own notes for this episode, the difference is all through the book, you know that there’s another one coming kind of thing. With the film, you have to treat it as a standalone piece of art. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: I thought the ending was so fast for the film. Obviously, they did just have to wrap things off and get it done, ready to unravel again for the next one, I was just like, “Oh, this is moving so fast.”

Ghenet: It does go very, very fast. We’ve talked through the book. Obviously, we have been talking about the movie as well. But let’s then talk about the movie itself. On its own, one of the things I definitely want to talk about also is Peik Lin and her whole family. Because that is very, very different from book to screen. 

Michelle: I actually quite enjoyed the portrayal in the film. Even though I would say some of it could be seen as problematic, but I saw it as a way of showing, obviously, really exaggerated modern Asian family, because I would say it’s quite westernized, the way her family are. Her dad is her dad. [laughs]  

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah. 

Michelle: I think doing it that way rehumanizes East Asians who have always been exotic. I can’t ever say that word. They’re fetishized—

Ghenet: Fetishized, yeah. 

Michelle: this way of thinking that they’re so different. They live so differently from us. When truly, we all live in pretty much the same, and the way her family’s fairly westernized, her mom’s really outrageous, I don’t know. I quite enjoyed that part [crosstalk].

Ghenet: Yeah. I did as well. I think when it comes to departures from the book to the film, we talked about Astrid but I think Astrid was the biggest one and then the second one, I would say would be Peik Lin. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: In the books, she’s still friends with Rachel, but she’s much more glamorous in my head. I pictured someone a bit more glamorous, whereas definitely, I think the Goh family in the film was a bit more of comic relief.

Michelle: Yeah, I think so too. Obviously, it was more of a rom-com. 

Ghenet: Yeah, you have to have that friend who’s there for comic relief. I think they were the right fit for it. I think also you have to feel Rachel has someone on her side. So, things like having Peik Lin there at the Tan Hua party, where in the book, Rachel is just there on her own, but having Peik Lin there, she serves as a go-between. She’s got a foot in both worlds, because she’s like, “lived life like Rachel,” she’s a bit closer to Rachel. She’s somewhere in the middle of these two families. 

Michelle: Yeah, I think where Peik Lin is so exaggerated, also played by Awkwafina who is known for her comedic relief.

Ghenet: Yes, absolutely. 

Michelle: I think it needed to be like that. For me, when I read the books, Peik Lin seem to be just like– I mean it sounds bad, but just a generic another person who is rich and who would make friends with Rachel solely for being Asian, which I think happens a lot. But I think it was nice for her to be portrayed in such a westernized way, so different from anyone else that we’ve come across so far in the film, just to show that there’s different types of people in that world. 

Ghenet: Yeah, absolutely. 

Michelle: And it was also in a way that the mass audience could also be like, “Oh, look. She’s normal. She’s down to earth. She’s so [crosstalk] on me.”

Michelle: Yeah, she might be rich, but you know. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: I think her family’s rich is slightly more familiar kind of rich, like a bit more showy- 

Michelle: Yes. 

Ghenet: -which I think, you’re like, “All right. Okay.” 

Michelle: Yeah, that’s the one you’re expecting to see on this film. 

Ghenet: Yeah. But then, these other families are– they’re very wealthy, but they’re also very elegant, and they’re very– I don’t know. I feel like we want to all fit into that stereotype a bit. So, I think having the Goh family like that is definitely there. I love their reaction to finding out that it’s Nick Young. We did talk about this a little bit before, but particularly, the mother’s reaction, when she’s like, “I’m sorry. You’re going to Colin and Araminta’s wedding?” and she just loses her mind, and they all lose their minds, and even P.T. is like, “No way.” All of them are just like, “What?” Then, they have that whole conversation. That’s the other part of it, is that Peik Lin then becomes almost the spirit guide to Rachel and the audience to explain things because we don’t have a narrator. So, we have to have that character that’s able to do a bit of that. Nick does a bit of that in the start when he’s talking about his family, but Peik Lin is the relatable one that we get that from. Then, just literally everything that she does when they’re at the house, when she’s running up the stairs taking selfies. 

Michelle: Oh, my gosh. 

Ghenet: Then, you just see Nick is just like, “Who is this crazy person that I’ve invited? What did I do?” 

Michelle: What appreciated too is Awkwafina apparently adlibbed a lot of her lines. 

Ghenet: I don’t doubt that. 

Michelle: [unintelligible 00:18:29] I was obviously a woman possessed when I realized that there was going to be a Hollywood film of South Asian class. She adlibbed a lot of it herself, and little nuances and stuff she wove in herself bringing her own Awkwafina character into [crosstalk]-

Ghenet: Oh, yeah, of course.

Michelle: -I really enjoyed. So, that’s her being her. [giggles] 

Ghenet: That’s just you, that’s just you. Although, speaking of Awkwafina, she did this other beautiful film called The Farewell, which I watched. 

Michelle: I still haven’t let myself watch that. 

Ghenet: Okay. I won’t spoil anything for you. But I will say this. There is that interesting thing of the difference between someone who’s raised in the US versus raised where their family is and just kind of that’s another theme that comes up quite a bit. That was definitely a more understated performance from her, but I loved that film. It’s just kind of interesting to see someone who has was playing this comedic relief, but then turned into– She also has levels to her, just literally all the things that we’re talking about. 

Michelle: I really want to– I know it’s been out for ages and I’ve not let myself watch it because I feel like it mirrors some of the things I’ve been through too closely [laughs] [crosstalk]  

Ghenet: Oh, like with your own family? 

Michelle: Yeah. I’ve not let myself watch it yet but maybe I should see it. Add that to my list along with Get Out, which I think these films are going to be very different [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: [laughs] Maybe just when you watch it– I cried at the end of The Farewell. To be fair though, I cried multiple times during Crazy Rich Asians, too. So, I don’t really know– [laughs] 

Michelle: I’ve just started crying because I cried at the trailer of The Farewell and I can look at a tweet and cry.” So, maybe, I should get around to watching it. [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: Maybe just make sure you have some tissues with you and like a pint of ice cream, and then you’ll be fine, right? That’ll be fine. 

Michelle: Yeah, maybe. I think, going back to Awkwafina, I do really appreciate how she portrays the East Asian diaspora. She’s really got a unique stance on things and for me, I’m still yet to really see that in the mainstream. So, I always appreciate the way she portrays that in all of her films by great [crosstalk] I really appreciated the way she handled that too.

Ghenet: Yeah, I really thought that it was a great thing to see so many different people within this community, but all of them are so uniquely different. 

Michelle: So uniquely different. Yeah.

Ghenet: Just the whole family, the aunties, they’re always around Eleanor even amongst them. They reminded me a little bit of the Muses from Hercules? 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: But a bit more serious. [laughs] 

Michelle: I see it now. 

[laughter] 

Michelle: I can’t unsee it. 

Ghenet: And especially the woman who plays auntie Alix, who is I think of all of them, because the other aunties like a bit snooty. But she’s like, “Damn, for a laugh.” She’s the one who, when Rachel walks up to them at the wedding, they all go to the aisle, and she turns around, she’s like, “I love it, that one.”

Michelle: Oh, my God, no, I see it now. The thing was all that Eleanor, and I call them the aunties with all of that auntie group, I really see that as such an accurate portrayal of the ladies who go to dim sum, because my own aunties do that too with their friends. You just get together, you eat a lot of food, you’re all gossiping. I really liked the whole vibe.

Ghenet: Yeah. Then obviously, Rachel’s coming in as an American, and I can also attest being someone who’s American who moved to a different country and having to deal with how people react to you, this scene where Rachel meets Eleanor for the first time, and she goes and hugs her, and Eleanor is like, “Ooh.” She makes this face, like, “What do you doing?” I was like, “Oh, my God, that’s me.” 

Michelle: No, it’s not.

Ghenet: That’s me.

Michelle: I’ve been that person, you would not do that normally. [laughs] [crosstalk] [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah. That’s such a clear– She was like, “Oh, right. You’re American. Okay.” It’s just the look of surprise when Rachel hugs her just makes me laugh so much because she’s literally just like, “What is happening? What is happening?” Also, Michelle Yeoh is incredible as Eleanor in this movie. She’s much more standoffish in the book and she actually isn’t– she’s on her own. You don’t really see her interact as much in the book as she does in the film, but Michelle Yeoh is amazing. She also does this thing where as Eleanor where she says something to you and the words are nice, but it’s still feels really mean. 

Michelle: It still feels mean. I love how she’s done that. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: I was convinced with Michelle Yeoh. [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: It’s the bit where– Yeah, it’s actually like– and you’re just like, “Oh, God, what’s just happened?” It’s the bit where she’s like, “A self-made woman, she must be so proud of you.” 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: You’re just like, “Oh, [crosstalk]. That hurt my feelings.” 

Michelle: She just cuts straight through, doesn’t she? 

Ghenet: Yeah, she does. She really does.

Michelle: I love that line. It was smug that she does because that’s what I had it in my head when I was reading the books, and on film, oh my gosh, it was perfect. 

Ghenet: Yeah, no. She was.

Michelle: Also, in this household, we stan Michelle Yeoh. She’s from Ipoh, Malaysia, which is where my dad’s from. 

Ghenet: Oh, okay. 

Michelle: And apparently my dad, somehow everyone knows each other, and I’m like, “That is my tiny claim to fame.” I don’t know anything else. [giggles] 

Ghenet: [laughs] I mean, I don’t blame you. She is phenomenal. 

Michelle: she is incredible as enough like the– Yeah, the little smirk that she does, the way she moves, oh, my gosh, loved it.

Ghenet: She was so elegant, and just the way that she would even just tip her chin a bit, I’d just feel it. You feel at on the screen. You’re just like, “Oh, oh, interesting.” 

Michelle: With tiny moments and you’re like, “Oh, I’m proud of you.” [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yes, terrifying. Can we please for a second talk about the food in the film? 

Michelle: Yes. 

Ghenet: Because they talk about food a lot in the books but there’s a difference between reading about it and watching it. And this is also me, I have this weird obsession when people are cooking in a film, I’m like, “Ooh, what are you making? What’s up there?” Do you know what I mean? I’m like, “Give me the breakdown.” This is a lot of food that I don’t have a lot of experience eating. I’ve eaten some different cuisines but I can’t say that I’m particularly knowledgeable about it. But every time I watch this movie, I’m like, “What is that? I want that. What is that? I want to know what they’re doing.” I love watching people cook, and the way that they talk about food, especially in this film, I think is really, really fascinating. We were talking about the dumpling scene before as well and I love the moment where they go to the market at the beginning. 

Ghenet: Yeah, the [unintelligible [00:25:35]. Oh, my gosh. 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Michelle: [crosstalk] the market. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah, and they’re just selecting all these things, and Nick’s explaining it all to her. There’s this really funny moment where you can tell because Henry Golding, who plays Nick, this is his first movie ever. Prior to this, obviously, he’s done a lot of travel programs, and you can hear it in his voice that he’s like in travel show mode when he’s explaining about all the hawkers. I wrote it down. And Nick goes into travel guide mode. The way he says generations, every time I’m like, “Am I watching a travel program or am I watching a movie?”

Michelle: Yeah, I definitely feel that. He’s is in full– But actually, as Nick Young, he’s also very composed. He’s a very knowledgeable person. So, I think it did work in that way, but I definitely see where you’re coming from. I love his acting. 

Ghenet: But also, I just want to know what all the things are that they were eating. Because all of it– obviously, I don’t eat meat, but I would give it a go.

Michelle: Look, because I’m obviously vegan now, meat, it’s at the heart of most Asian dishes, like Chinese dishes for sure. But what have I written on my notes about that? So, the whole street market scenes, I’ve wrote that the whole scene just felt like a tight warm hug to me because it’s so real to me. 

Ghenet: Oh, that’s so nice.

Michelle: It’s something that you never see even in travel shows, I would say, about Asian food. So, you see loads of different foods are glamorized in the West. I would say those are these trendy foods, and Asian food is never really one of them. It’s always seen as dirty or cheap, like takeaway food. So, for me, seeing that, oh, I just felt like a little hug.

Because one of the traditions we have every time we go back to Malaysia, we always take the same time to fly because of the way our schedules of work work. Then, we land and then we drop our stuff off at our house in Malaysia, and then, it’s half 11 at night. We go out to the late-night markets and we sit there on plastic tables and chairs, big bowls of wonton noodles. [unintelligible [00:27:45] dry, stir-fried noodles, all of these steaming bowls of food, and you all sit and share it all together. All the cutlery is plastic. It does just look like how it’s portrayed in the film. For me, I saw the scene and my sister and I looked at each other and were like this is literally as you’re fresh off the flight, we go and sit. It’s the middle of the night. We eat all these bowls of noodles. And everyone’s out, it’s lively and buzzing. I loved that. Because [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: So, it’s very authentic feel for you. 

Michelle: Yeah, for me, that was a very authentic moment and even in the more unrealistic– is it at Nick’s grandma’s house where they’ve got all the kitchen going with all the foods, even that felt like– I’ve noticed how things like seeing the chopping board, the meat cleavers, or the piles of steamed foods, I was like that’s just stuff I’ve never really seen outside of my own house or the restaurants we frequent, and it’s just stuff you never see in the mainstream. And yeah, it’s obviously, all delicious. The hawker street food one, I was like, “Oh, lovely–” [crosstalk]  

Ghenet: I mean, I’m [crosstalk] a little bit. I’m not going to lie. 

Michelle: One day when there’s more veggie and vegan options menu, me and you, we’ll go. We’ll go. [laughs] we’ll have our [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Yeah. All the noodles, just give me all the noodles, please. That’s all I want. Yeah, no, I love that description of it, and knowing that’s something that’s really real for you. Because you can also tell it was really real for them to include that in the film, and also just as someone who loves food, of course, I’m going to be like, “Yeah, let’s go.” [giggles] 

Michelle: So, [crosstalk] all this food, I’m like, “I’m just going to pause this on Netflix for two seconds and have a look at what’s going on here.”

[laughter] 

Ghenet: What are they eating there? What [crosstalk] with that crap? Yeah, literally, when they’re making all the food and stuff for the party or when actually Astrid brings Michael a plate, and she’s like, “All your favorite.” I’m like, “Ooh, what’s on there though? What’s going on?”

Michelle: I think food is one of those things that I’m sure you agree. After the film came out, everyone was raving about the food scenes. I like that it came across that way because like I said, East Asian food has always been seen as something like dirty, unpalatable. There’s all of these stereotypes around it. But it became such a big thing that everyone was like, “Right, I need to go and eat all of this food.” And food is the heart of Chinese culture. 

When I go to visit family, you don’t ask them how you are. You ask, have you eaten yet? That’s how big food is in the culture. I would go to– obviously not right now during the pandemic, but if I walked to my cousin’s house, he’d asked me, “Have you eaten yet?” That’s the greeting. So, I really like that it came across though properly in the film. 

Ghenet: Yeah, because then you have that shared moment over this meal and it bring you together in that way, which is really special that I think that probably would miss out on otherwise. That’s so interesting. 

Michelle: [crosstalk] cooking, making dumplings together, sharing food or Astrid bringing Michael the plate of food, that’s your way of showing that you really love someone. It’s definitely the whole– What is it? Like the types of love giving or something [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: Oh, [crosstalk] your love language. [laughs] 

Michelle: [crosstalk] that a bit. Your love language is- [crosstalk] food.

Ghenet: A plate of food. 

Michelle: Yeah. That’s the whole thing. 

Michelle: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Food brings us all together, doesn’t it? So, that’s a powerful moment, I would say. Then, just the way that food makes an appearance, when they’re making the dumplings together as a family, that’s a really sweet moment. Even Rachel commenting on it, seeing them all together, and laughing, and not having to worry about the eyes of the world on them. They’re just together and they can be themselves, and they’re just doing this thing that’s filled with love. It’s really, really nice to see that side of it where I feel you probably don’t really in most mainstream media, not in that way.

Michelle: Yeah, you wouldn’t really get that side of things. I think that also shows like the whole multigenerational household side of things, which is something I always talk about, is how– obviously, I live with my parents. And before that, we have my grandma living here, too. But it’s a very normal thing to be living in a household like this, where you’re all gathering together to do things like this. It’s not something I would talk about every single day all the time, because it’s seen as not normal here, but I like that it was completely normalized there, and it became such like a heartwarming scene. Everyone was just like, “Wow, they’re just real people sitting there like making dumplings.” That’s what [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: I mean, the dumplings [crosstalk] Yeah. 

Michelle: for making sourdough, we would literally sit down stairs holding hundreds of dumplings together. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: That sounds amazing. I’m going to be honest with you. As I mentioned before, I don’t eat meat, but dumplings are actually one of the few things that I really genuinely miss. Anytime I had when I was still living in the US as well, my go to takeaway thing is always to have dumplings, because I love them so much. 

Michelle: I love them.

Ghenet: When I stopped eating meat, I would get vegetarian dumplings. Not quite as good. 

Michelle: Yeah, not the same. 

Ghenet: But they’re like a comfort food. 

Michelle: I make really good vegan ones. 

Ghenet: Do you? Oh, well, I guess I’m going to–

Michelle: [crosstalk] [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah, even that when we’re allowed to [crosstalk] I might just have to come around. And I turned my husband on to them now. So, when we’re here and we order a takeaway, the place that we order from doesn’t have a vegetarian dumpling option, which is really upsetting. So, I never get them anymore, but he gets dumplings and every time, he’s sitting there eating them. I’m just like, “I want dumplings.”

Michelle: Oh, I love dumplings.

Ghenet: There’s something just cozy and warm about them, and it just makes me really happy.

Michelle: I don’t know. They’re great. Great food. They’re little warm pockets of love. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yep, so this podcast has now turned into-

Michelle: A food podcast. 

Ghenet: -let’s just talk about dumplings. 

Michelle: It [crosstalk] a food podcast. 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] a food podcast, yeah. 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Who cares about the [crosstalk] Food, let’s eat. My two loves in life books and food. 

Michelle: Books and food. I like what you’re saying. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Okay. There’s one more thing that I do want to talk about. I want to talk about Rachel’s Cinderella moment when she gets out of the car, and everyone looks really glamorous, and she’s trying all of these things, and Peik Lin and her family, and Oliver are all there, and they’re all being very ridiculous. I’d love to see the outtakes from shooting that whole section of the film. 

But then, she gets out of the car, and she’s wearing this beautiful blue dress that’s floaty and ethereal, and it’s just such a lovely moment, and it is her Cinderella moment. I think it’s really powerful. Every time I watched it, I was like, “Ah, she nailed it. She nailed it.” She said, “I’m not going down without a fight.” 

Michelle: Rachel has arrived. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yes, she has. 

Michelle: She is here. I love those moments in films in general, we get the makeover scenes. I just love them because it just shows the growth, and I think we’ve all been there, haven’t we, like the power of a particular dress? 

Michelle: Oh, yeah. Then she has this moment with Amanda, where Amanda tries to stand in her way for a minute, and she’s like, “You’re in my way,” and then just pushes past. Amanda’s like, “What?” You can’t argue with an incredible dress. It just does the job. I think it’s really interesting, because the moments that we see Rachel in the film, like when she goes to Araminta’s bachelorette party and Araminta’s like, “The Gap look, I love it.” And [crosstalk] like, “Is that supposed to be a compliment. That’s me,” and like, “What? Sorry, I don’t spend thousands and thousands of dollars on my shorts. Yeah, I bought these from the Gap. What’s your point?” She’s just very simple compared to everyone else. Then, to see her embrace that environment for a moment felt really good to see her like that. 

Michelle: Oh, she still kept her inherent sense of being and I like that that was just the moment where she decided to not let those labels she’d been given a factor. How they obviously demonized her for being not the right sort of Asian. Obviously, she’s like a foreign Asian, which is the very brutal way of how people call it. 

Ghenet: I think, they kept referring to her as an ABC. 

Michelle: Yes. 

Ghenet: It’s like, “Oh, ooh.” 

Michelle: Yeah, like ABC, BBC, these labels have been there. I loved that moment, especially when the girls, when they were like, “Okay, I’ll take it.” [laughs] 

Ghenet: Yeah, they were just like– [crosstalk] 

Michelle: Can’t argue with that. 

Ghenet: Yeah, and then you have that moment where she approaches the aunties, and they’re all just like, “Who is that? Oh, I see.” Auntie Alix is like, “I loved it. I love her and obsessed with her.” When I watch movies multiple times, sometimes my favorite thing to do is focus on another person, even when they’re not the focus in the scene. She is one that I will look at. I look at her, and then I look at the actress who plays Eddie’s wife, Fiona, because she has some really great moments. They’re blink and you miss them moments. It’s then that bit then that Colin and Nick have this conversation where Colin is like, “Oh, yeah, she’s not sitting with your family,” and Nick’s like, “Oh, yeah, she’s probably in the back somewhere.” And Colin’s like, “Nope, false. She’s right at the front.” It’s this great moment where she’s claimed back her–

Michelle: I like that. It was a different spin on, if you can’t beat them, join them kind of vibe. 

Ghenet: Yeah, if she can’t beat them, rise above them. 

Michelle: [crosstalk] Right, above them. She went above and beyond. 

Ghenet: Yeah, exactly. And it just looked amazing too. She looked so pretty in that dress. 

Michelle: Oh, she’s so beautiful. I would argue that of all of the other guests who were there, particularly, the ladies who were on the carpet when she arrived, she looked better than all of them.

Michelle: Yeah. Totally. I think it was supposed to be that she stole the scene, and it was like, “Look, Nick’s other half, she has shown up now,” because before it was the whole point of she’s not good enough for Nick, who is good enough for Nick? And suddenly, in the blink of an eye, she’s more than good enough. 

Ghenet: She’s absolutely more than good enough. Yeah, for sure. Speaking of scene stealers, my other favorite scenes stealer is when we get to Nick proposal 2.0, which is so much better than the first one. [laughs] When his first proposal, he’s like, “I’m sorry things have been bad for you. Do you want to marry me? [crosstalk] when he’s on the plane.” Then, the woman who is behind Rachel- 

Michelle: “Oh, yes, sir.”

Ghenet: -I watch her every single time we get to this, because she’s literally just like, “All right, can we go? Let’s go.” [crosstalk] But then, when she realizes what happens, just the look on her face is hilarious. She’s clinging to Rachel’s mother, she’s clinging to Rachel’s mother, and the fact that she’s like, “Yeah, she’ll marry you,” before Rachel even says anything. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: And Rachel’s like, “I do.”

Michelle: I love it. I think in that perspective, also as crazy as it sounds, but it was also relatable to you always get that overexcited little old lady who’s just [unintelligible 00:40:01].

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: I loved her.

Ghenet: She was invested. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 2.0 proposal? 

Michelle: I loved that whole mundane plane scene- 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: -compared to the last one where Rachel and Nick were flying out, and they were in that ridiculous-

Ghenet: First class. 

Michelle: -first class, got a private bed.

Ghenet: Yeah, it’s like a huge– and you can see that when they’re getting on the plane, and she’s trying to shove past people, and it’s just like, “There’s this different. This is very different.” 

Michelle: Yeah. [laughs] 

Ghenet: I think as well, it’s just goes to show that it’s not about the money for Rachel, and that scene always makes me really emotional, and then–

Michelle: If that lady doesn’t come back for the wedding, I will be upset. The plane lady.

Ghenet: The auntie on the plane? [laughs] 

Michelle: The auntie on the plane. We’re invested. 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] Yeah. You know, she was like, “Where’s my invite?” [laughs] I said, yes for you. No, it just always makes me laugh, because it’s just like a really sweet moment.

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: That’s like ruined but not ruined by someone else being like, “Yeah.” 

Michelle: This cut the split-second change of when she was annoyed at this whole [crosstalk]

Ghenet: Rachel for taking too long. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: And then she realizes what’s going to happen, and it’s like, “Oh,” and then they go to this party on top of a hotel with synchronized dancers in the pool for [laughs]  

Michelle: Hotel with synchronized swimmers. 

Ghenet: Yeah, the synchronized swimmers. It’s basically just an excuse to get the entire cast in one place, isn’t it, and to set up that Charlie Wu moment for movie number two. [laughs] 

Michelle: Which was– it was certainly worth that that two seconds. We were all like, “Wow.”

Ghenet: It’s the moment where they look at each other, and you see they both then just look away shyly, and you’re just like, “Woo, woo, woo.” You can sense the chemistry. I find it really funny though that didn’t– Harry Shum, Jr. I think. 

Michelle: Yeah, Harry Shum, Jr. 

Ghenet: He got he was pretty prominently billed. 

Michelle: Were we laughing? He was on the open credits, and then in the rolling credits, he was the fifth name or something, and we were like, “Pardon? He’s just showed up.”  

Ghenet: What was his paycheck like for that literal 2.5 seconds of screen time? 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: But also, worth it.

Michelle: Worth it. 

Ghenet: Worth it to have that moment where Astrid and Charlie just look at each other, and they’re just like– 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Oh, man, this just makes me really excited for the next movie. Actually, it just makes me excited to watch this movie again, and then– 

Michelle: I know. I’m going to have to re-watch it tonight as if I don’t watch it all the time. [laughs]

Ghenet: I just didn’t know [crosstalk] it’s such an entertaining film. I love the book, I do, and I do think that the film got a lot of the spirit of the book, which I think really helped it. But there is something really joyous about the film and then obviously, the way that they tie everything in a bow at the end, it feels really rewarding. Particularly, with the mahjong scene, which we haven’t even talked about. 

Michelle: [laughs] 

Ghenet: We haven’t even talked about, which is an homage to The Joy Luck Club, which in and of itself makes it feel really special. But they nailed the satisfying moments. So, when Astrid finally tells off my goal, when Nick and Rachel get engaged, when Rachel stands up to the woman who’s been really mean to her, we as humans find that really satisfying. Anytime you see that in a movie, where you’re like, “This person’s like– let’s go. We’re standing up for ourselves now. This is not–” Do you know what I mean? Those moments always feel so great that it always feels this film.

Michelle: Even though there are small moments at the end of the films where they’re just like all the loose ends, and it does feel like very rewarding to watch the film. I enjoyed the film as a separate entity to the books, and yeah, the film is so enjoyable to watch. It’s about all the stuff that happens in the middle. With a rom-com, you know you’re going to get like the lovely, heartwarming, and yeah, I’ve watched the film, I think, five or six times. 

Ghenet: I’ve definitely watched it more than that. [laughs] 

Michelle: I remember watching it on the plane on the way to Hong Kong and just sitting there thinking like, “Dude, this is like a film in Hollywood and everyone somewhat looks vaguely like me.” I was just like, “This is groundbreaking.”

Ghenet: Yeah, no, it is, and there’s something really powerful about that. It is one of my go-to. You know how you have films that you– When I have chores that I have to do where just want something in the background, there’s a good chance I’ll be watching Crazy Rich Asians, because all of the elements of it. I love the soundtrack to it, I love the characters are so colorful and vibrant. And the storyline, you’re right, it is incredibly rewarding.

Michelle: And you get the great one-liners throughout as well. 

Ghenet: Yes. 

Michelle: You love hearing those on when you’re getting on with your chores, don’t you?  

Ghenet: Yeah, you know what’s happening. You stop then and watch it, [crosstalk] even though you’ve seen it, you just, you have to. 

Michelle: You know what happened. Yeah, get along with it. [laughs] 

Ghenet: It’s particularly for me, my favorite one is the bit when they’re playing mahjong, and I will admit, I had to google it a bit because I don’t entirely understand what’s happened. So, the fact that she gave up her winning tile, which is why she’s so surprised. Why Eleanor is so surprised when Rachel flips over her tiles, and she’s like, “Oh, it’s because actually, she would have won, but she gave up the tiles.” 

Michelle: Yeah, she still had the upper hand technically. I just love her subtle [unintelligible 00:45:38]. I remember after the film and Louise was trying to explain it to you, and Amber and we were just like, “This is hard to explain.” 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah, we both were like, “What?’ 

Michelle: The sound of mahjong tiles clicking, clacking, that is the sound of my childhood. We did not have bedtimes. We had times where we could just hear that downstairs and we were running around upstairs. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Oh, so cute. 

Michelle: It’s so nostalgic in many ways. Nostalgic for me from a British-Chinese perspective in that it was one of the sounds of my childhood. But as you said, a nod to the Joy Luck Club, which was another pivotal film. Amber loves that scene. 

Ghenet: Yeah. But that’s probably one of my favorite scenes when Rachel just lays out. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: So, in 10 years, when Nick’s married and you’re playing with his grandkids, and the Tan Huas are blooming, that was me. It’s that line where she was a poor, low class, whatever that string she says, It’s such a zinger and it’s so good. It offers that bit of redemption for Eleanor’s character, which I think is really fascinating. In the books, it happens outside of the timeline of the books. So, I think by the time we get to the second or third book, some of that changes, like it happened a bit, but we don’t get to see it. It happens off the page somewhere. So, it was rewarding to see that. I think also given that Eleanor, even though, she’s a villain, she’s a very three-dimensional villain in that we kind of understand some of where she’s coming from. So, it does feel a bit like, “Okay, they’re on equal levels now.” 

Michelle: It was like her flipping the tiles over, it was a literal representation of Rachel laying her cards on the table, and actually listed all of the supposed pitfalls that Eleanor had labeled on her. It was more of a mirror image of Eleanor’s character if that makes sense, because it makes you really think like what’s the opposite of this? Is this supposedly what Eleanor represents? I really enjoyed that. It was very satisfying one. 

Ghenet: Yeah, it was incredibly satisfying. 

Michelle: [unintelligible [00:47:48] as well, worth it. [laughs]  

Ghenet: [laughs] She genuinely was like, [crosstalk]

Michelle: Yeah, She’s like, “Ooh.’

Ghenet: But it’s so subtle though. Even when she’s like, “So, Nick proposed to me,” and she literally– I think her eyebrows like a thing. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: But you’re like, “Ooh, ooh.” You can register her surprise. She’s an incredible actress.

Michelle: [crosstalk] honestly. 

Ghenet: She’s phenomenal. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: So, we’ve talked about the book, and we’ve talked about the film in depth, and I think it’s safe to say, but we’re both fans of Crazy Rich Asians. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: What were some of the standout moments for you from either the book or the film? What would you say?

Michelle: I would say standout moments, I’ve noted one down. I really enjoyed right at the beginning of the film, the lengthier New York moments between Rachel and Nick, so before it all went a bit crazy. Because I think it was a breath of fresh air to see, like I said before, the modern portrayal of East Asians existing not in Asia, they were just in New York. They were popping to the market having dessert. So, I really loved that scene because it really set like a precedence for the rest of the film to be like, “Look, these are just normal people. You’re about to watch a film with an all Asian cast, but people have real emotions, they go through stuff.” So, I loved that scene. 

Obviously, my other one is the dumpling-making scene, because it was just such a real-life moment for me. There’s not often that I will say many things feel totally relatable to me. I can see it and I’ve seen it through the eyes of other people, but it’s not my lived experience. I just loved it. 

Ghenet: Oh, yeah. 

Michelle: Little moments.

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Yeah, no, that sounds really sweet. I love what you said too about seeing them exist outside of just being around people who look like them, like we exist. We as people who are not white, we exist outside of those spectrums where our race is the focus-

Michelle: Exactly. 

Ghenet: -outside of those stories where our race is the focus. We exist in the world with other people. So, we see that in that way, it still feels a bit revolutionary, even though it shouldn’t, but it’s a moment where you feel very recognized, I suppose.

Michelle: Yeah. I just felt very seen, I would say. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: No, honestly, even at this point, I can count on one hand, maybe two if I tried, the number of times that a book or a film has featured even an Asian character, never mind a protagonist. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: Oh, it’s just like, “This is crazy.” This is genuinely mad to me to think, that’s the thing. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Okay. Was there a moment from the book that you wish had been in the film?

Michelle: Astrid, her storyline. I just wish that they’d developed it even a little bit more as it had been in the book, because I do think they might have done a bit of a disservice in that people won’t be as heavily invested. I know at the end of the Harry Shum, Jr. scene, they have alluded to what is coming [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: Yeah. I do wish Astrid had been a little bit more because she’s clearly like the kind, compassionate one. But I think in many ways, the film did do that by moving some of those traits over to Rachel.

Ghenet: Okay, and our final question, the definitive question, which is better, the book or the movie? 

Michelle: Oh, my gosh. I honestly love them both. I love, love, love them both.

Ghenet: [laughs] That’s allowed. That is allowed. 

Michelle: I suppose from a more practical point of view, and I think it’s even controversial coming from my own mouth. I would say, I might love the film a little bit more just because it did so much to me. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Michelle: Like the book, I sat there, and I read that and honestly about a day probably because I was like, “I’m reading a book. There’s things that I can relate to. There’s literal Chinese words or Chinglish like the mixture of Chinese and English in here.” But seeing really, like I said, it’s groundbreaking to see it with your own eyes all of this playing out on a screen watched by millions of people. 

Ghenet: Yep. 

Michelle: Yeah, I think the film, oh, my gosh, controversial. [laughs] 

Ghenet: Controversial. There we have it. There we have it. The books are amazing, but I am slightly inclined to agree with you actually. I’ve re-watched the film so many more times than I [crosstalk] 

Michelle: I think also from a practical point of view, I can’t read the book multiple times. I’ve got many books I want to be getting on a reading. 

Ghenet: You and I are very similar in that. We both really love to read. So, yes, and– [crosstalk] 

Michelle: I [crosstalk] to be meeting, I want to read these five books next month.

Ghenet: Oh my God, I know. I have so many books to read. So many books. 

Michelle: Yeah, [unintelligible [00:52:59]. Oh, yeah, you’ve a great film. 

Ghenet: You heard it here first, folks. Crazy Rich Asians, the film is the clear winner between the two of us. That was a delightful conversation. Thank you so much for joining me, Michelle. If listeners want to find you anywhere on the internet, where can they find you?

Michelle: Oh, you can read my blog at daisybutter.com and find me online everywhere else on social media @winyeemichelle. 

Ghenet: Lovely. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, guys for listening, and I will see you next time.

[music]

Ghenet: The Book Was Better is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Ghenet. You can find us on Instagram @bookbetterpodcast and on Twitter @bookbetterpod. You can also get in touch with me by emailing bookbetterpodcast@gmail.com. I love hearing from you. So, feel free to send me your thoughts. 
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