S1, E02 – Pride and Prejudice: The Adaptations

Full Episode Transcript

Ghenet: Hey, it’s Ghenet. We are back with part 2 of my conversation with Becca and Molly, all about Pride and Prejudice. But a little bit of housekeeping before we jump in. I just wanted to say a big, big thank you to everyone who has shared about the podcast on Instagram and Twitter. It really means a lot, and it helps more people find us. So, I just wanted to say, it’s very appreciated. Now, I know you’re really here for is more Jane Austen hot takes. So, let’s just get right into the episode, part 2 of my conversation with Becca and Molly of Pod and Prejudice, all about Pride and Prejudice. Enjoy.

[The Book Was Better Podcast theme] 

Ghenet: We talked about the book in quite a bit of detail. It seems like the adaptation’s probably people are the most passionate about, which one is better. 

Becca: Certainly. 

Ghenet: I know. I mentioned this that when I shared on my Instagram stories that I never actually watched the 1995 adaptation. 

Molly: Did people fight you? 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah, a little bit. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: There were some very strong opinions. So, I watched the TV series while I was listening along with your podcast, and then I had obviously seen the movie, but then obviously, I re-watched the series having re-read the book. Then re-watched the film having re-read the book. I have some thoughts about both to be honest. 

Becca: Absolutely. I think there are two types of adaptations of Pride and Prejudice. I think this is true of a lot of classic literature. There are the types of adaptations where you are telling the story from start to finish exactly as it happened in the book or trying to tell the same story that the book told. The 1995 is the quintessential faithful adaptation to the book. 

The other type of adaptation is something like The Lizzie Bennet Diaries, or Death of Pemberley, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, which all assume you are familiar with the story. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: I would go so far as to say even the 2005 version. 

Molly: Yeah.

Becca: That’s what I was going to say.

Molly: Yeah. You can’t watch that movie as your only experience of Pride and Prejudice. 

Ghenet: It’s such a beefy book. And there are some things, there are characters who we literally meet once or twice, and then we never meet them again. It’s difficult. I love the book. I’ve read it a few times. I don’t remember if I saw the 2005 version before I read it. The last time I remember reading it was a good six years ago though, and I haven’t seen the movie in a very long time. But I do think it is incredibly difficult to adapt that to film, because you either you cut everything or you don’t cut anything, those are the two options. 

Becca: Yeah. So, I think with Pride and Prejudice, one of the things that’s interesting about is it’s so many different books in one book. It’s this biting satire of classism in England, and it is this critique of the underestimating of women, and their minds, and their wits. That is hard to capture with the same subtlety that Jane Austen captured it in her books, and that’s where something like a six-hour adaptation– really, there’s a lot of benefit to it. 

But I think the other side of Pride and Prejudice for us nowadays, it’s a romance, and it’s a sweeping trip into a world of balls, and silks, and gentle walks on the countryside.

Ghenet: And delicate manners and things being very restrained, and there’s something very romantic about that.

Becca: Exactly. So, I think the nice thing about the 2005 version of Pride and Prejudice, despite the criticisms that it comes up against which, I get them, and I agree with some of them. But I think it’s nice to have this story where they really lead into the beauty of the countryside, the whimsicality of this time period, and these girls who are witty and fun, and a very intense love story. 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Molly: Yeah. They both have merits, and I think that romance is what’s going to most capture an audience these days. So, the 2005 makes Darcy much more sympathetic character, because they want us to root for him. Whereas the 1995 I think, while it is Colin Firth, and we’re all [panting noises].

[laughter]  

Molly: Is less sympathetic, because he is a bit more of a jerk, and Darcy is a jerk.

Ghenet: So, should we start with the TV series? We’ll just go right in.

Becca: Let’s go right in. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Six episodes of this TV series, and again, this is something that we mentioned before is that, the miniseries has six episodes to do, with the film had two hours to do, like two and a bit hours. So, obviously, there is going to be some huge differences. 

Molly: Right. Well, I was thinking about this this morning, and really, the TV series is a movie for the fans of the book. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Molly: The movie is a separate entity and it’s good on its own. But this series, if you read the book and you wanted to see it on screen, this is what you would watch. 

Ghenet: Absolutely.

Becca: Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing, because when really, really staunch book fans watch something, they just want to see the book. I think the 1995 is a quintessential version of that. Just a perfect adaptation.

Ghenet: Yes. Obviously, they’ve made some slight changes. The first episode starts with Darcy and Bingley checking out Netherfield, which is not a thing that we see in the book, and then, it gets into that. I also liked how in that first episode or immediately after we meet the Bennet family, they’re at church or something, and then it starts the whole, “Oh, Netherfield is let at last.” Then, I’m so glad they gave this line to Lizzie. They made her say, “Oh, a man with good fortune must be in want of a wife.” 

Molly: Must be in want of a wife. 

Ghenet: Ah, yes. We are in Pride and Prejudice. 

Becca: Yes.

Ghenet: We have arrived. [laughs] 

Molly: They did just enough that it made it feel like we’re in the world, we’re not just reciting the book but this is what happens in the book. We get these quintessential lines from the book that aren’t necessarily dialogue in the book which I loved.

Ghenet: Yeah. No, it’s a good way to bring it all in. And also, I think that’s such a classic line. I think that’s the first thing I said, when we were talking about the book, is like, “That’s the one that everybody knows,” and I feel like because they made the choice to put it in, obviously, then people are going to be like, “Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you’re respecting the material. So, that’ll be good.” But yeah, we meet the Bennet family. We have all of the sisters and the parents after church, and they’re doing the whole, “Oh, Netherfield is let at last. You must go visit him.” Mr. Bennet is giving his wife a hard time and then surprise, he’s actually already gone to visit Mr. Bingley. 

I did want to talk about one thing, because this is the difference between the two films, and it’s something that we brought up when we were talking about the book in terms of the difference between social groups. Obviously, we know from reading the books that Mr. Bennet is a gentleman and they’re not destitute, but it’s very clear for their financial situation is not great. I think in the 2005 film versus the 1995 adaptation, there’s much more of a disparity, and that is a lot more evident. Molly, I know that was something that you had found a bit frustrating, that there wasn’t that much of a difference but it felt like actually, there was a huge difference.

Molly: Yeah, I’ve been frustrated by this from the beginning, because reading the book, who’s poor and there’s nobody’s actually poor, and Becca was like, “Well, they’re poorer,” and I was like, [sound].

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: And the 1995 version, they definitely seem like they’re more of the gentlemanly class versus the 2005, where there’s pigs running around inside of their house, and they haven’t painted in 15 years. Then, 1995, their house is big, it’s well kept, they have beautiful gardens, except they’re small. But I think that it does a good job of showing that the wealth difference isn’t actually that much. It’s just frustrating, because that’s not the time that we live in, and anyone with money is a person with money to me.

Ghenet: [laughs] [crosstalk] 

Becca: I think part of the 2005 acknowledging that is that these seem like really arbitrary distinctions in our modern American brains, there’s an effort on the part of the 2005 version to translate that feeling into the Bennets are poor. You can go on the whole like, “Oh, yeah. The Bennet girls won’t inherit their wealth. Their father wasn’t particularly careful with his money. So, even though he’s a gentleman and even though they live nicely in this time period, they’re not desirable as matches because their dowries are small.” Whereas in the 2005, they kind of scrapped that complexity and nuance for they’re poor. So, obviously, this is a stepdown for Darcy. You know what I mean? 

Ghenet: Yeah, that’s the thing. I think it’s much more distinct from the 1995 one to the 2005 one. 

Becca: Yeah. I think there are a couple distinctions like that in the two adaptations. One thing I think they do particularly well, I might be jumping ahead a little bit, but I think that 1995 does a markedly better job portraying just how embarrassing the Bennets are. 

Molly: Yes. 

Ghenet: Yes, absolutely. 

Becca: Mrs. Bennet is deliciously over the top. She’s somewhat sympathetic in the 2005 and there’s the scene at the Netherfield ball between the two is so different, because the Netherfield ball is fancier than the other balls in the 2005 but people don’t look like fish out of water there. Lizzie Bennet’s there with her 2005 style pearls in her hair. 

[laughter] 

Becca: But the 1995 has the scene where Mary plays the piano, and everyone’s staring at her, and it’s excruciating. 

Molly: She’s like, “Ah!”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: You can feel [crosstalk] Darcy would be like, “Oh, no. Don’t go there.” 

Molly: Yeah. They’re not likable, and-

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: We get a good picture of that in the 1995 for sure. 

Ghenet: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 

Molly: And I watched both of these with my mom, and after we watched the 1995, she was like, “I can’t fucking stand Mrs. Bennet specifically.” She was like, “This is awful. I hate her. Her voice grates on me.” And same with Mr. Collins, she was like, “This is terrible. I hate all of them.” Then, I was like, “That’s how they’re written in the book though.” It’s over the top because they’re over the top characters. It’s a comedy like it’s fine. Then, we watched the 2005, and she was like, “I like this Mrs. Bennet much more. I like this Mr. Collins much more.” I’m like, “But that’s not how they were written.” But then like they grew on me. 

Ghenet: Oh, I have so many feelings about Mr. Collins. [laughs] 

Molly: Me too. [crosstalk] 

Becca: Oh, well, I think that it’s the most extreme acting difference between the two movies. 

Ghenet: Oh, yeah. 

Becca: We can certainly talk about the differences between the portrayals of Lizzie and Darcy in the two, and particularly Mr. Darcy is quite a different character in the two adaptations, but Mr. Collins, you have David Bamber– 

Molly: His little finger wave. 

Ghenet: Oh, my God. [laughs] 

Becca: What can only be described as the most disgusting performance in any BBC adaptation.

Molly: It’s horrible. 

Ghenet: Oh, God. It just gives me the creeps just thinking about it. 

Becca: Then, they take Mr. Collins– and I don’t think this isn’t necessarily that bad a choice, but they really change his character to be a short, awkward, sappy little guy in the 2005. I think that both work, especially if you cut out the slut shaming of Lydia in the later part of the film, which they do. But it makes Lizzie look less good if she’s rejecting him so meanly.

Ghenet: That’s the thing about when you have a book, that there’s so many different ways that you can imagine them. I would say, personally, for me, the 2005 is probably a little bit closer to how I pictured Mr. Collins, but not exactly that. So, there’s a happy middle somewhere in there. With that, I’d be like, “There he is. There’s Mr. Collins.” But that’s the point, there’s so much information in this book, and a lot of it is very open to how you personally perceive it. But I will say, the 2005, no, the 1995 version– I’m just going to keep getting them confused. Oh, God, that’s really blasphemous to say, I might have to edit that out. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: But yeah, we definitely jumped ahead a little bit. But one of the other things that I definitely think is really interesting is, in the 1995 version, we get a lot more of Mr. Darcy as a human- 

Becca: Yes. 

Ghenet: which I am very here for, but then also, there were other times where I was like, “What?” 

Molly: Right. Well, because he jumps into the water in his clothes and you’re like, “What he is doing?” 

Ghenet: Well, even in the first episode, one of the last things that we see is Mr. Darcy having a bath, and this is when Jane’s gone to Netherfield and she’s become ill, and so Lizzie goes to take care of her and Lizzie is just in the house. And then obviously, we have all of these great interactions when they’re having all the conversations about accomplished women, and all of that stuff. And then, there’s lots of little moments that we get with Lizzie throughout the book where she’s like, “I’m just going to go for a walk by myself, and it’ll be fine.” We see some of that, but then we also see a lot more of Darcy than we did. So, we have this moment in the first episode, where he’s in the bath, I was a bit like, “Oh, hello. What? Ooh.”

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: Some of that is really this film was made through a female gaze and was like, “Hey, how do we get Colin Firth closest to naked in a Jane Austen adaptation?”

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah. Can I ask a stupid question? 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Why are their sheets in in the bath? 

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: That’s not a stupid question. That’s an excellent question. 

Ghenet: Anytime I’ve ever seen an adaption that takes place in the olden days, there’s always a tub. Someone’s always taking a bath in one of those big metal tubs, and there’s always sheets in them, but I literally have no idea why. Is it so they don’t burn themselves or something? 

Molly: Hmm. Maybe. Maybe, they are trying to double up on the washing. So, they’ve got sheets and they’ve got the body. 

Ghenet: Yeah, multitasking.

Becca: This is one of those questions we have to throw it to the listeners, because–

Ghenet: Yeah, literally. If anybody knows, if anybody’s listening and wants to tell us why they put sheets in the tub, please, please tweet me, email me, do whatever. Please explain it. But yeah, we have him in the bath. and then he gets out, and he’s looking out the window, and he sees Lizzie playing with the dogs. I think it is really interesting to make that decision to add more of these moments where you see him– because obviously in the book, Lizzie realizes that he’s paying her a lot of attention, and it’s like, “Oh, what’s happening?” But we don’t get as much of that information, and so it is interesting to then be presented with that.

Becca: The one thing I like the best about getting it from Darcy’s perspective is we kind of see why he falls in love with her, and the [crosstalk] this quote, weird boner[?] he has for her, whatever. He just like [crosstalk] 

Molly: [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: Yeah. A direct quote from Jane Austen. “Darcy developed a weird boner for Lizzie.”

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Although fun fact about the 1995 version, I was reading trivia about it. Apparently, in this episode, when he is walking and she turns up at Netherfield, he’s taken by surprise. Apparently, the guy who wrote the script had the note to direct Colin Firth as if he suddenly had a boner at her appearance. 

Becca: Incredible. 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: I think that’s exactly what happened. 

Molly: And he does it so well. He walked up and he went, “Oh.” 

Ghenet: Then, that is what finishes off episode one, and then we move into Episode 2, which starts with the arrival of Mr. Collins. Also, this is when we meet Mr. Wickham for the first time as well in this episode, and I think we– [crosstalk] 

Molly: [unintelligible 00:16:01] Wickham. Sorry.

[laughter] 

Ghenet: They go to Mrs. Phillips for an evening, they go to the ball at Netherfield, there’s so much happening within this chunk of the book. We meet Mr. Collins. He is very different in the 1995 version. 

Molly: Slimy.

Ghenet: He’s very slimy and pompous, and does the same thing where he wants to marry one of the daughters originally, is like, “Oh, Jane,” and then Mrs. Bennet has to be like, “Oh, no. She’s about to be engaged.” So, he’s like, “Okay, cool. Lizzie, I guess.” In the book, they walk to Meryton, and he joins them, and then they all end up going to Mrs. Phillips for the evening, and Mr. Collins is super awkward and says something about– does this happen in the book? Am I making this up or is it just because I watched the 1995 version where he says something about, “Oh, your room reminds me of the breakfast room at Rosings” or something? Mrs. Phillips like, “What?” 

Molly: Yeah, that happens in the book. 

Becca: It’s this moment where he’s like, “Yeah, your entire home is the size of Lady Catherine de Bourgh’s breakfast nook.”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: Yeah, and then she’s like, “Oh, thank you,” and then Jane is like, “No, no, no. You must understand that Rosings is very large.” 

Ghenet: Yeah.

[laughter] 

Ghenet: Yes. Mr. Wickham tells his whole tale, and the way that it happens is much more drawn out than in the 2005 version. 

Molly: No, the 2005 basically cut Wickham entirely. 

Ghenet: Yeah. In both of them, they meet them in Meryton, but it’s just a bit different. Immediately afterwards, he and Lizzie just go off on their own. They’re just sitting under a tree, and he’s like, “Here’s what happened,” and then, we just don’t really ever see him again. But obviously, in this version and also in the book, there’s more time for Lizzie to warm to him and to hear some of what he says. 

Becca: Certainly, I would argue that’s the worst thing that 2005 did, because that’s the only thing that 2005 adaptation does that really changes the story itself.

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: Because Lizzie in the book really has a lot of disdain for Darcy, she finds him deeply annoying. But she starts to think of him as borderline evil when she finds out about Wickham’s plight, I’m using quote hands even though this is a podcast. 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: The dichotomy between how much she enjoys Mr. Wickham and believes him based on how flattering he was on their first meeting versus how poorly she thinks of Mr. Darcy based on just how he was rude to her the first time they met in [unintelligible [00:18:46], that forms a lot of Lizzie’s developments in the book, and forms a lot of what happens. I think that kind of is lost in the 2005 version, because you don’t really get her relationship with Wickham. You don’t get how deeply charming and manipulative he is– [crosstalk]  

Ghenet: Yeah, the only thing you do really get is that scene where she’s walking into Meryton with someone and they’re talking about Mr. Collins. So, in the book, Mr. Collins is with them, but they’re just talking about him. Then, they go to buy ribbons or something, and they have that little bit of flirty chat. You kind of get a hint of it, but it would have been nice to have a little bit more, so you kind of understand then, when he starts to tell her, you get the sense in the book, he’s like feeling it out first. He doesn’t just outright tell her. He’s like, “Oh, this little bit, this little nugget, and then the next time I see you, this other little nugget,” and there’s a much more of a build. 

Molly: Yes. 

Ghenet: And also because as well, they picked a very good looking actor, and how handsome we find him and then when we find out what he did to Georgiana.

Becca: Well, one criticism I have of all adaptations of Pride and Prejudice is, I also don’t think they make Wickham hot enough ever. 

Molly: Exactly.

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: Don’t get me wrong. Both men who play Wickham in 1995 and 2005, they’re handsome, and particularly the 1995 one, he has a real cadence and a charm that makes you draw– [crosstalk] 

Molly: He’s got a cute mole on his face that I like. 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah. 

Becca: I think one of the things that’s true in the book is that they talk about how hot Wickham is the entire book. 

Ghenet: Oh, my God, they absolutely do. Absolutely. 

Becca: One of the things is that it’s a romance. So, you cast the best-looking guy as Mr. Darcy. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: That’s how movies work. But one of the things, it’s like no matter– Even the housekeeper in Pemberley is like, “Yeah, Wickham hot, but a bad person.” 

[laughter] 

Molly: Mrs. Reynolds, spicy old fox.

Ghenet: Yeah. 

[laughter] 

Ghenet: You are absolutely right. The instinct is to just make Darcy the best one. But actually, if you’ve read the book, you’ll know that part of the reason that Lizzie is, and everyone is so taken with Mr. Wickham, and refuses to believe that he could be wrong is because of how attractive he is. That’s literally all anyone talks about. 

Becca: Almost no relation to the plot of Pride and Prejudice, but it is based on it, Bridget Jones’s Diary does this quite well, because you have Colin Firth playing Mark Darcy, who is based on Mr. Darcy, and he’s extremely handsome. He’s supposed to be extremely handsome, but they cast Hugh Grant in the Wickham role and Hugh Grant had that–

Molly: Hugh Grant. 

Ghenet: Hugh Grant. Yeah. [laughs] He has that Hugh Grant thing about him. [laughs] 

Becca: Exactly. He’s a dream boat on a dream boat. Yeah. 

Ghenet: After meeting Mr. Wickham, we have the ball at Netherfield, and I’ve written in my notes, Wickham bails, the Bennet sisters are so embarrassing. Mr. Collins, oh, and Mr. Bennet. [laughs] Every time, it’s just like, “Oh, this thing, and then this thing, and then this thing.” Then, we get to Mr. Collins’ proposal. In the book, it’s bad. In both adaptations, it’s fairly bad. But in the 1995 version, he does this thing that actually just made me want to throw my laptop out of the window. Lizzie starts to speak, and he puts his hand up-

Molly: I know.

Ghenet: and I’m just like, “I hate when people do that.” 

Molly: It’s so bad. He shushed her. He waved her off.

Becca: It really is the difference between just being negged to oblivion. The 2005, which is him genuinely trying to give a nice proposal. I think the fact that in the 2005, there’s this little flower he puts down in front of her? 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Molly: And he was holding it at the ball on the 2005, like he had planned to do it at the ball, and that’s why he was so nervous. Oh.

Becca: It shows some effort towards romance and trying to make Lizzie happy, and then, it makes Lizzie a bit more of a Disney princess. I think I say this on our podcast, but it gives her that, [in a singsong voice] “I want adventure in the great white sky.”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: Yeah.

Becca: It’s [crosstalk] more like, “Oh, there’s something wrong with him.” It’s just like, “I want so much more. 

Molly: But in this one, this is a malicious proposal. He does not care what she feels about it. He’s like, “We’re getting married.” Full stop.,

Ghenet: Yeah, I think definitely, I felt Lizzie was a lot more justified in the 1995 version. Just purely when he put his hand up, I was like, “Oh, girl, get out of there. Don’t do it.”

Becca: [laughs] 

Ghenet: That choice, I was just like, “Oh, God, I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.” Obviously, in the 2005 version, they definitely make him a more– He’s not malicious in the same way. He’s just a bit inept and awkward. 

Molly: Right. He’s planned out what he’s going to say, and he’s going to say it no matter what, because that’s what his plan was, and he can’t stray from that plan versus I don’t care what you have to say, I’m going to keep talking. It was a different dichotomy there.

Ghenet: Which then also leads me on to the next sort of thing that happens is when Charlotte comes by, and the portrayal of Charlotte in the 1995 version versus the 2005 version is so incredibly different. In the 1995 version, this is the end of Episode 2, Lydia and Kitty run out, they bump into Charlotte, they tell her what’s happened, because obviously, Mr. Collins has just proposed, everyone’s all in a tizzy, and Charlotte is like, “Oh, well, maybe I’ll ask him to dinner.” Then, she makes this face. 

Molly: [laughs] Yes.

Ghenet: She’s like, “Mm,” and she straight up start scheming. Then, it’s the start of the next episode that we kind of find out that Charlotte and Mr. Collins are engaged. In the 2005 version, Charlotte doesn’t turn up. Literally, she just arrives and [unintelligible [00:24:40] Lizzie were engaged, like there’s no sort of in between.

Becca: Lizzie’s just on a barn swing while it’s happening. 

Ghenet: Yeah, she’s just going round and round like you do, and then Charlotte just arrived. To me, in the book, it didn’t seem like that was her immediate thought. 

Molly: Right. It was like she was there, they became friendly, and then– 

Ghenet: Yeah. She was being polite because he didn’t want to talk to anybody else because he was offended. So, he was talking to her, and she wasn’t being mean to him. And then, at some point, she was like, “Oh, okay.” But in the miniseries, it made it seem like she was like, “I got this.” That felt so weird to me, because the way that Charlotte and Lizzie are friends, I like their friendship a lot in the book, and I will say, I do think their friendship is more evident in the 2005 version. There’s a lot more moments of them being really friendly, and laughing together, and playing together. 

Becca: I totally agree with you that the 2005 really delves into the warmth between Lizzie and Charlotte much more. I see it’s like how you say Mr. Collins comes between the two adaptations for you in the book. I feel there’s something between the 2005 and the 1995 with Charlotte, because I do think that she gets it in her head that he’s looking for a wife, and that there might be an in here. But I don’t think it’s as immediately scheming as it is in the 1995. I’m glad of all the things to not cut, one of the things they really chose to emphasize was the warmth between the women in the story. So, that’s a good thing in the 2005, I would say. Molls?

Ghenet: I would say that’s definitely a bonus for sure.

Molly: I feel like both movies missed out on the opportunity to show Collins proposing to Charlotte because that happens in the book and we don’t get to see it. He describes him falling at her feet, running down the steps, she looks out in the morning, she sees him running down her road falling down —

[laughter] 

Molly: A boombox above his head. 

[laughter] 

Becca: [crosstalk] the end of the 2005 where for some reason, Mr. Darcy just walks in his billowing robe out of the fog. 

[laughter] 

Becca: I was picturing that happening, but it’s Mr. Collins. So, there’s like that– 

Ghenet: And so, he’s scurrying. 

Molly and Becca: And he’s like– 

Becca: [imitates pompous walking sounds]

[laughter] 

Molly: Yeah, but I wish that we had gotten to see that and I feel like that would also inform who Charlotte is like, how she responds to it, and I think that the 1995 is a bit closer to the book in that Charlotte is not romantic. In the book, she’s like, “I don’t actually want romance,” whereas, in the 1995, she’s just like, “I need to marry someone. So, I can’t afford to be romantic. I’m 27 years old. I’ve no money and no prospects. I’m already a burden on my parents.” 

Becca: “And I’m frightened.” 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: What immediately happens, then we move into Episode 3 of the miniseries. Charlotte and Mr. Collins are engaged. But then there’s another scene as well, but also, I think changes the dynamic of their friendship is, we see Lizzie and Charlotte having tea, and Mr. Collins is in the background talking to Charlotte’s dad, which is again another interesting thing, because in the book and again, correct me if I’m wrong, Lizzie was really hurt by this, and it changed their friendship for a little bit, didn’t it? She wasn’t immediately just like, “Well, okay.”

Becca: Yeah, both of them cut down on the amount of time it takes Lizzie to get over this. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Becca: It’s understated in both adaptations, but what’s hurtful is not necessarily that Charlotte picked up her leftovers, it’s that Charlotte’s taking her inheritance.

Molly: Oh, right that.

Ghenet: But I think actually, it’s more like Mrs. Bennet and some of the other sisters who were hurt by that. I think what Lizzie is the most upset about is that she feels her friend is settling for someone who doesn’t deserve her. 

Becca: Certainly, yeah. 

Molly: Yes. 

Becca: She wants her friend to be in a happy marriage full of love. She just can’t believe that Charlotte would marry Mr. Collins because he’s an idiot. But also, imagine if that person also had proposed to you three days before. [laughs] 

Molly: Right and also her mom has been talking shit about Charlotte since the beginning, since as soon as Bingley and Darcy arrive, she’s like, “Oh, and Charlotte is plain and good thing, my daughters are hot.” And Lizzie does not want to play into that. But now, Charlotte has settled down with this person who is also equally laughable, and her parents are upset because of the inheritance things, now they’re going to hate Charlotte even more, and it just puts Lizzie in such a weird position.

Ghenet: Yeah, absolutely. I think you both are right that neither adaptation really gives that too much space. So, we have this whole situation with Charlotte, and then Bingley leaves Netherfield, and there is a moment in the 2005 that I do really like but at the same time, it’s such a throwaway little moment and it’s just about around this. It’s when Jane gets the letter, we see Charles in the carriage with Mr. Darcy and with Caroline, and he looks so– just his little puppy dog face, [crosstalk] and looking out the window, and then he just looks at Caroline, and Caroline’s just like, “None of this.” 

Molly: Yeah, whereas the scene that we get into 1995 for this is Caroline, Louisa, and Darcy standing over–

Ghenet: Standing overhead and looking down. Yeah. 

Molly: Like [unintelligible [00:30:00] him and saying like, “Okay, you can’t take this woman. Blah, blah, blah.”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: Yeah, I think they do a lot to emphasize the romance between Jane and Bingley in the 2005. It translates as parallel love stories as opposed to this triangle between Lizzie, Wickham, and Darcy, does that makes sense?

Ghenet: Yeah. I also really love, we get a lot more of the characters who are just like little mentions that obviously, for a big adaptation, it’s fine to keep them in but for a film or something, we don’t get anything with Maria Lucas in the film at all. But we get so many adorable little moments with her in the adaptation. [crosstalk] Oh, she’s so cute. I love her. So, we actually get to see her go to visit her sister with Lizzie and you see her interaction with her like, you just get a bit more of both of them as a character which you get in the book a bit, but they’ve obviously beefed it up a little bit. Then, we get this really great scene where Mr. Collins is giving them a tour. 

Molly: Argh, shows them a closet. 

Ghenet: [laughs] Yeah. He’s talking about all the ways that [in a British accent] Lady Catherine de Bourgh has given all of the advice about all the things they should do, and he’s like, “Look at these shelves in your closet,” and Lizzie’s just like, “Great.” Then in the movie, they do something really similar where Lizzie and Charlotte hug and they come in and Mr. Collins is pointing things out to them, and they just leave him. 

Molly: He doesn’t notice it. He just keeps stalking and he is standing by himself, and then he looks up, and they’re gone, ah. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Molly: Poor boy.

Becca: There’s a great scene in the 1995 version where Charlotte, it’s like, “Yeah, I do this, and then I do this, and I encourage him to go on walks in garden,” and then, she says something along the lines of, “Some days, I don’t even see anybody at all.”

Molly: Lizzie’s like, “Walking is a very good exercise.” Charlotte’s like, “Yes, very good exercise.” 

Ghenet: There’s so much subtext there.

Molly: Yes. I Love it.

Ghenet: So, we’re at Rosings. Now, I’m just going to come right out and say that Judi Dench is my Lady Catherine de Bourgh. 

Molly: She’s the quintessential– 

Ghenet: Yeah. She’s it to a T.

Becca: I would agree that Judi Dench is pitch perfect in this role. She’s made to be a terrifying, condescending virtual lady. That being said, something I ranted about on our podcast, and something I will read about here is set design. Because she looks like she’s sitting in in Atlantic City casino in 2005 version. I don’t know what they were thinking. 

Molly: Yes. 

Ghenet: Oh, my goodness. 

Becca: I think that her performance is spectacular, but for some reason, everything was painted gold and done like the Vatican, but bad.

Ghenet: When it comes to some of the sets for 2005, that exterior shots of Rosings is a bit more what I had in mind for Rosings and Lady Catherine de Bourgh. Even Netherfield and all of those things, I think their set locations are slightly more successful in my mind, but– [crosstalk] 

Becca: No, no. I would– [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] point of view.

Becca: I think one of the things that the 2005 has going for it best over the 1995 is esthetics and the mood created by the movie, except for two very specific things. That would be the interior of Rosings and the interior of Pemberley.

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: Pemberley in so stupid in the 2005. It’s so weird. Also, the exterior of Pemberley, honestly, it is pretty, but in the book, Pemberley is described as kind of emerging from the earth and being rocky and blends in with the landscape, and that’s why it gets Lizzie all hot and heavy because she loves a good landscape.

Ghenet: They filmed it in some place that’s actually mentioned in the book that they go visit. 

Molly: Oh, no way. Wow.

Ghenet: Yeah. So, when they’re talking about visiting the Peak District, they say something about “Oh, well, visit this place and this place in Chatsworth, then da, da, da.” 

Molly: Ah, wow. 

Ghenet: And obviously, they use Chatsworth as Pemberley in the 2005 version.

Molly: That’s funny.

Becca: That’s so lovely, but Mr. Darcy would never have a statue garden. [laughs] 

Molly: No, never.

[laughter] 

Molly: It’s so weird. 

Ghenet: Interesting thoughts about interiors and Rosings. I’m glad we all agree about Judi Dench, though. [crosstalk] 100% say.

Molly: Then I liked this one too. I thought that this Lady Catherine was very much a portrayal of the Lady Catherine in the book. She’s like [in a British accent] Lady Catherine de Bourgh and she’s got the big eyes. But if we could just pluck Dame Judi Dench out of all the weirdness of the 2005 put her through and put her in this movie, I would be super into that. 

Ghenet: I just want to watch Dame Judi Dench do anything, really. 

Molly: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] moral of the story.

Becca: Particularly, being a mean rich old woman is her at her best.

Ghenet: A sweet spot. They’re all at Rosings and Darcy and Colonel Fitzwilliam arrive, and Lizzie and Colonel Fitzwilliam become very fast friends. There’s lots of teasing of Mr. Darcy, and it’s really cute. Colin Firth has this amazing ability to do this thing. It’s not quite a smirk, but it’s an almost smile that he does, and I find it really attractive. 

Molly: It’s so hot. 

Ghenet: Literally, every time he did it in any scene, when she’s playing the piano, he comes over and they’re having a bit of banter, his lips quiver to an almost smile, and I’m literally just like, [squealing noises]

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: [crosstalk] with Jennifer Ehle’s capacity to make fun of people silently to or so. On screen, it’s like they’re just such a power couple.

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: We could probably do this whole movie in silence with just the two of them looking at each other from across the room, and you will get the same effect. 

Ghenet: [laughs] It’s pretty spectacular. So, we now move on to I think probably the moment we’ve all been waiting for. Mr. Darcy proposes to Lizzie, and boy, oh, boy, does it go wrong. There was one thing I did not like about the 1995 version, and you probably know what it is. They changed the line. 

Becca: Yes. [laughs] 

Ghenet: I know it’s a small thing, but of all of the lines to change. 

Molly: It doesn’t fit with the pentameter or whatever they’re speaking in.

Ghenet: You were the last man in the world I could ever be prevailed upon to marry. 

Molly: It’s like it works, it flows, and then they just take it, and they squish it up. 

Becca: It’s wild. 

Ghenet: And it felt very jarring when she didn’t say it considering pretty much every other line has been word for word. 

Becca: I would go on the record and say that I think both adaptations actually did a stellar job with this scene- 

Ghenet: Yeah.

Becca: -in different ways.

Ghenet: I do love the 2005 one. There’s some great moments. I was just replaying in my mind. Specifically, the bit where she says this, and then he does that thing where he like, he is in a bit. 

Molly: And he almost [unintelligible [00:36:52] 

Ghenet: Then, she’s just baring her teeth and looking terrifying.

Becca: For me, it encapsulates the best of both adaptations. The 1995, it’s nearly a perfect adaptation of the book. The words exchanged are done with bite and emotion and the two of them deliver these iconic performances, and then the 2005 version, a lot of things are added, you deal most of Bingley plotline through that argument they have in the rain. But it’s sweeping, it’s sexy, it’s him desperate and searching. 

Ghenet: It’s almost like that scene in The Notebook. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: I wrote you every day for a year, but different. I loved you every day for six months. 

Molly: [laughs] 

Becca: That being said, the moment where Matthew Macfadyen leans into Keira Knightley after she says, “You’re the last man on earth–.”

Ghenet: When he leans forward, and he looks down at her mouth, and then his lips twitch.

Molly: And hers do too. 

Becca: Then he just goes, “Forgive me. Uh.”

Molly: [crosstalk] some of your time. He’s so handsome [crosstalk] and they do almost make out. That is, I think, that was purely for the 2005 audience. At this point. Darcy and Lizzie are not about to make [laughs]. They just– 

Ghenet: No. But also, I don’t hate it. 

Molly: I don’t hate it. I love it. 

Ghenet: It’s that good.

Molly: Every rewound it and watched it five times in the same sitting like it is very good.

Becca: Yeah, exactly. I think that seem really gets to the heart of the two adaptations. It’s like, yes, the 1995 version looks pretty much as it’s done in the book, stellar performances. 2005, not what happens in the book exactly, but I don’t care because these two people have so much chemistry and it’s so hot. It’s so great.

Ghenet: Oh, did they nail it. Obviously, then, in the book immediately after this, Lizzie just doesn’t know what to do with herself. So, she’s going for a walk, and he gives her the letter. She does get the letter in both adaptations, but the 1995 version does something quite interesting where there’s lots of voiceovers. 

Becca: It is by far the sloppiest choice this director made in this adaptation.

Ghenet: This is the point as well. This is like Episode 4 now. But up to this point, it hasn’t happened. So, when it does happen, it’s really jarring?

Molly: Mm-hmm.

Becca: You could capture the same emotions. For example, Mr. Darcy walking away and all of Lizzie’s saying, he’s replaying in his head. You could capture that. Just through Colin Firth performance, trust your actor, and we’re going to get that he’s thinking about what she said to him. 

Ghenet: And even the bits where she’s walking and you hear what he said, and she says something. We don’t even need to hear– we heard what he said the first time like we don’t necessarily need. 

Molly: It’s so strange. He’s talking to himself. Just as he’s listening to her in his head, he’s talking to himself. She’s doing the same. It’s super–

Ghenet: She’s doing the same, and so it was definitely, definitely a choice. We move on and they’re about to leave Rosings. She’s about to head back. Mr. Collins in the last scene at Rosings, when Lizzie is beside herself, like she just is very out of spirits, this whole scene when Lady Catherine is speaking to her, I was literally just looking at Mr. Collins, because all he’s doing the entire time is shushing himself. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: Yes.

Ghenet: He’ll start to say something, and then Lady Catherine will start speaking, and he just goes and shushes himself. He’s got his finger to his lip, and it’s like– 

Molly: I think that’s brilliant. I think that’s one of the best acting choices this actor made. Thinking so–

Ghenet: I think it [crosstalk] watching him and not the rest of the scene. I literally was like– 

Molly: Oh, yeah, absolutely. He was the most fun to watch at Rosings, because he just spends the whole time hunched over bowing to her basically, and I think that he does a good job of being Mr. Collins, and especially with the shushing himself, encapsulates everything that Collins is.

Ghenet: And when they say good bye, and he’s talking to Lizzie basically, like, “I hope you can see that your friend is going to be happy, and this isn’t a terrible life.” Wink, wink. And he does that creepy wave. 

Molly: It’s the finger wave. 

Ghenet: Charlotte is just like, “Uhhhh.”

Becca: You watch her soul leave her body. 

Ghenet: You really, really do. I was like, “Well, that’s their marriage in a nutshell. Good. Good.” [laughs] 

Molly: Mm-hmm.

Ghenet: But yeah, so that happens. Then we head back to Longbourn, and Jane and Lizzie have a little catch up, and she tells Jane about the proposal and Mr. Wickham, which the Lizzie-Jane relationship is really, really different in the two. That is something definitely about the 2005 that I didn’t love, because they’re supposed to be really close. Lizzie literally tells her everything almost the second she gets back from Hunsford. She’s like, “Let me tell you what happened.” 

Molly: Yeah, and then and then she’s like, “Oh, nothing.” 

Ghenet: It changes that relationship a lot by having that sort of distance between them. 

Becca: Yes, absolutely.

Molly: When I think in the book, she tells her everything except about Bingley and about Darcy separating them, and I think that that’s integral to their relationship. It’s that she’s trying to protect Jane, but she still is telling her as much as she can. In the 2005, it’s in bits and pieces where it’s like, first she tells her nothing. Then she says, “Oh, by the way, randomly, I saw Mr. Darcy at Rosings.” She says, “Oh, really? What happened?” She goes, “Nothing.” 

Becca: Then she blows up the candle all dramatically.

Molly: Yeah. Oh, man.

Ghenet: I think also, because of that as well, we sort of lose a bit of Jane because in these conversations, Lizzie is also checking in with Jane to be like, “How are you doing?” Particularly, in the 2005 when they did such a great job of showing Lizzie and Charlotte’s relationship, I would have loved to have Jane have the same treatment.

Becca: Oh, yeah, and I think in the 1995, they use Jane to have Lizzie say a lot of the things that she thinks in the book.

Ghenet: Yeah.

Molly: Right. 

Becca: And it really does show how close they are. Until this moment, I never knew myself line, that’s something she says to Jane in the 1995. So, that’s a very deep intimate thing. So, I totally agree that they do have more room for that to breathe in the 1995, but they really do decide that they put distance between the two of them in the 2005 in this part.

Ghenet: Yeah, it’s clearly a very conscious choice for them to just not be speaking at all. The next thing I wrote in my notes is just Lydia is thirsty, and that’s capitalized and underlined. Because the officers are leaving, they’re all sitting around the dinner table, and Lizzie says something about like, imagine what a whole camp full of officers would do. Then Lydia is just like, “A whole camp full of officers?” It’s just like– 

Molly: She’s drooling. 

Becca: Yeah. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Becca: Oh, man. What a thirsty teenage girl. 

Ghenet: Then, Mary’s not really bothered. Kitty and Lydia just, they don’t know what to do with themselves. Not even Mrs. Bennet is like, “I remember having my heart broken by officers.” Mr. Bennet is just like, “I hate all of this.” 

Molly: Yeah. I love the 1995 Mr. Bennet. I think that he is peak Mr. Bennet. 

Ghenet: He is peak Mr. Bennet for sure. He’s very entertaining. What happens after this?

Becca: Lydia goes to Brighton and Lizzie goes mountain watching with her?

Ghenet: Yes, she does. She goes off to the Peak District, and we see a bit more of the relationship with Lizzie and the Gardiners, and then cut to Darcy fencing and [unintelligible [00:44:28] that he will conquer this and obviously, we know what he’s talking about, but also like, what?

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: They are just some weird additions for Mr. Darcy in the 1995. It’s like so to the tee what happens in the book, and then they just add fencing and swimming to assure us that Darcy is a sporty boy or something. 

Ghenet: Then, he’s still suffering lest we get confused. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: He will come for this. But also, slightly ambiguous, because I took that as he’ll get over his feelings. 

Molly: Because he’s not trying to get the girl. That’s very big in the book is that like he is going to go work on himself and not try to get with her. So, he wants to get over his feelings and she shows up at the most inopportune time.

Ghenet: Yeah. Lizzie and the Gardiners are eating breakfast and they’re trying to convince her to go to Pemberley, and she’s not really loving the idea until the housekeeper or whoever’s serving them is like, “Oh, no. They’re gone.” She’s like, “All right, okay.” 

Becca: Chekhov’s Pemberley. 

Ghenet: Then, we see Mr. Darcy riding. He goes for a swim. 

Becca: A great moment. 

Ghenet: Then all of a sudden, they are face to face. 

Molly: My favorite scene in all six episodes. 

Ghenet: Yeah, it was so good. They’re so awkward. I was so awkward watching it. The notes that I wrote during this scene are so awkward. “Oh, my God, what a reunion. Oh, my God, Colin Firth is so cute. Oh, my God.” [laughs] 

Becca: Yeah, I think your exact thoughts were also Lizzie’s. 

Molly: Yeah. She’s like, “Oh, my God. Oh, fuck. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Why is he so cute? Why is he what?” 

Becca: Ah, my favorite part is when she’s walking away and it just like, “Did he say something wrong?” But she goes, “No, he was perfectly lovely. He asked after my parents.” 

Molly: Yeah, the Pemberley scenes in the 1995 were so good. This was my favorite episode, I think, of the six. 

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Molly: I watched with my mom, and she was like, “Oh, he’s improved.” I was like, “Yes, he has.” 

Ghenet: Because he comes running out of the house, he’s obviously just changed. He’s finishing buttoning, and he’s like, “Where are they, where are they, where are they, where are they? 

Molly: Oh, my God, and then he’s like, “Oh, I’ve got to stop running.” So, he walks. He does that fast walk. He’s like [gasps]. Here I come.

Ghenet: When he’s being really friendly and stuff, and then Mrs. Gardiner’s like, “This is not the Mr. Darcy you described to us, Lizzie,” and Lizzie’s just like, “I have no idea who this man is.” 

Molly: I ran into this man walking down the street, I wouldn’t know who this man is.

Becca: I am sorry to [unintelligible [00:46:58]. 

Ghenet: Literally, and then they’re walking around, it’s really lovely, and Mr. Darcy asks if Lizzie would like to meet his sister, and then that’s the end of the episode. 

Molly: Yeah. 

Ghenet: Then, we get the adorable visit with Georgiana, and Darcy, and Mr. Bingley. Obviously, in the 2005 version, Mr. Bingley is not there at all. 

Molly: A travesty, honestly. 

Ghenet: My next note that I wrote in my notes here is, no wonder they dated in real life with all these bedroom eyes, obviously referring to Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle, is how you say her last name? 

Becca: Yes, indeed. 

Molly: They dated in real life? 

Becca: Yes, they did. 

Ghenet: Filming this. [laughs] 

Molly: Becca, you never told me that. 

Becca: I did not. I was saving it. 

Molly: Wow.

Ghenet: Yeah. No, they dated in real life. 

Molly: Oh, my God. 

Becca: You can tell.

Ghenet: Then, they go visit Pemberley, and we get more of Caroline being really salty, and then this really weird freeze frame scene that I don’t really understand. 

Molly: Yeah. We see them across the room imagining– Yeah. [crosstalk] 

Becca: Yeah, it’s very weird, but I will say I do like the plot of the scene there, because I think that it’s a nice moment where Lizzie covers for Georgiana.

Ghenet: Whereas in the 2005 version, obviously, we don’t have Caroline there. We just have this really cute moment with him and his sister. I love it, my favorite thing about this scene is not even just when he smiles, when he’s making a joke, and they’re having a bit of banter. It’s when Georgiana does that thing where her hands at behind her back being really cute. She just looks at her brother, and it’s just like, “Mm-hmm.” 

Molly: She’s like, I know, [crosstalk] 

Becca: I guess in the book and in the 1995, there is this dynamic between Darcy and Georgiana, where Georgiana is so desperate to impress Darcy. The relationship is still very warm and gentle, but the 2005 removes some of the formality between the two of them, and– 

Ghenet: And leave the love and affection. 

Becca: Exactly, and gives them just a gentler, warmer, a more equal relationship. 

Ghenet: But also, it’s just really cute when he does that little smile thing. Then she’s just like, “Mm-hmm,” like she knows. Then, we get to the scene where Jane’s letters arrive, and we find out that Lydia has run away with Mr. Wickham. Again, these happened very differently in the book in both adaptations. So, Lizzie has to go home, and then they do something quite interesting in the 1995 adaptation. In the book, Mr. Collins writes a letter about Lydia- 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: -in the 1995 version– In the 2005 version, we don’t get any of this. But in the 1995 version, instead of writing a letter, he actually turns up and it’s like, “Let me just ask you in person,” and I think it is hilarious for so many reasons. And then having Lizzie say that really funny thing to get him to leave. She’s like, “Oh, well, you wouldn’t want to tarnish your reputation anymore.” 

Molly: Right.

Ghenet: “So, bye.”

Molly: She makes him to give us his idea. He’s like, “Oh, yeah. I better go. You’re right.” 

Ghenet: And then we see Lydia and Wickham in a hotel room. Again, this is another thing that’s added to this adaptation that we don’t get in the book or in the 2005, is actually seeing Lydia and Wickham outside of this. 

Becca: I love that we see it. Yeah. 

Ghenet: I love that we see it, but at the same time, part of what is causing such stress to them is that we don’t know what’s happening. 

Becca: The thing that I like about it is that, I think that these scenes portray the relationship between Wickham and Lydia, and how he’s so aggravated by her, and how much he’s lied to her, and at her heart, she’s just a silly teenage girl who thought she was going to get married and made some really bad choices.

Molly: I think that also, the 1995 doesn’t ever leave anything up to interpretation. It’s already given us so much of what Darcy’s thinking, it’s showing him in London at this point, it’s showing Lydia in London. So, we don’t have to make that up in our heads as to what’s happening, and we can see that Mrs. Bennet doesn’t know but we know as the audience because that’s the kind of movie it is. 

Ghenet: Moving into Episode 6. The final episode of the Pride and Prejudice miniseries.

Molly: Yes.

Ghenet: I’m going to go with about 90% of what happens in this episode is just nonexistent in the 2005 version.

Becca: Three things that are really big plot points that happened in this episode are the Catherine de Bourgh moment, the Jane and Bingley proposal, and the Lizzie and Darcy reconciliation/proposal.

Ghenet: Or, if you’re Matthew Macfadyen, just walking across the field in the mist. [laughs] 

Becca: Of one of the three plot points that I named, I think the 2005 does a spectacular job with it. That is the Jane and Bingley proposal. 

Ghenet: Yes, it’s so cute.

Becca: It is precious. Especially, the scene where Darcy is coaching Bingley. 

Molly: Yes. 

Ghenet: [crosstalk] So cute. 

Becca: Darcy coaching anyone on how to propose is laughable. [laughs] 

Molly: How can he speak to the subject? 

Becca: But I think he’s pretending to be Jane and– 

Ghenet: Mr. Bingley? [laughs] 

Becca: Yeah. 

Molly: Oh, my God. Okay. So, the 1995 Jane and Bingley proposal, it’s very funny because this is the scene where Mrs. Bennet is winking at Kitty, and she’s like, “Ah, ah, ah.” Kitty’s like, “Mom, why are you winking at me?” 

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: Then they all go [crosstalk] sitting in silence, and Lizzie is stressed. She’s like, “We have to go. Jane didn’t want us to leave her alone. Come on. We’ve got to–” She’s like, “Five more minutes, five more minutes.” 

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Molly: Then when Lizzie finally goes down, they look up and they’re standing over the fireplace all canoodling, and Lizzie’s like, “Oh, my God.” 

Becca: Whereas in the 2005, we actually see him propose. 

Molly: Which is so cute.

Ghenet: Yeah. 

Molly: Well, we almost see him propose. We see him say, “I’ve been in complete unmitigated ass.” 

Becca: And then, we see him get on one knee. 

Molly: Yes. 

Ghenet: Yeah. Then you see her say, “Yes, yes. The thousand times, yes.” [laughs] 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: When they do finally get it together, it is really, really adorable. We have the drama with Lady Catherine de Bourgh. And then, Mr. Collins sends a letter warning them, but Lady Catherine de Bourgh got there first, and Mr. Bennet thinks it’s really hilarious. We get this scene in the 1995 version of him being like, “So, I got this letter, and here’s what it said.” Lizzie is just like, “Oh, my God. Get me out of here. Get me out of here. Get me out of here.” 

Bingley and Darcy come back, and then Lizzie finally has the moment where she thanks him, and then they reconcile, presented very differently in the 2005 version, because you get the sense that after Lady Catherine left, she’s gone back to wherever Mr. Darcy is, presumably London, to tell him what happens. Then he comes in and he is like, “Let me scope it out.”

Becca: I think the inference there is that he hears about what happened with Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and that she refused to say she wouldn’t marry him, and he was like, “Oh, I have a chance.” 

Molly: The timing there can’t possibly work out. In the 1995, we see she goes, she leaves, he comes back the next day or whatever it is, and he’s like, “By the way, I heard you talk to my aunt.” Whereas this is like– 

Becca: The night. The same night. 

Molly: First of all, she came in the middle of the night, probably, 11:30 PM. Second of all, then she leaves. You’re right, Ghenet. She must have gone to talk to him, because otherwise, how would he have found out so fast? And then, he wrote all night– he walked, I’m sorry, where was he? [laughs] 

Ghenet: I guess you kind of assumed that he was at Netherfield, is my assumption. 

Molly: He hadn’t left yet?

Becca: He’s in his pajamas and just walks to [unintelligible [00:54:34] 

Ghenet: Yeah. He’s so excited by this revelation of his aunt, but he just has to go walk and he does that thing where he’s like, “I couldn’t sleep.” They have a catch up on their feelings. They do a similar thing in both films where it’s not like, at no point, does he say, “Will you marry me?”

Molly: No. 

Ghenet: They have a conversation about their feelings, and he says that thing of like, in both of them, he’s like, “If your feelings have changed, tell me so at once” or whatever he says about, “One word from you will silence me forever.” Then, Lizzie in the 2005 version, takes his hand and says, “Your hands are cold.” Then, cut to Mr. Bennet going, “Are you out of your senses?” 

Molly: [laughs] 

Ghenet: Mr. Darcy is walking around outside, and Mrs. Bennet and Jane are staring out the window going, “I thought she didn’t like him.” [crosstalk] whereas later on, we find out quite specifically in the 1995 version, and also in the book, it’s just Lizzie going to Jane, “By the way, while you and Mr. Bingley were on your walk, Mr. Darcy and I got engaged again,” badum-bum-tsch.

Molly: Yeah. Jane in the 1995 is like, “But wait a minute. I thought you hated him.” Lizzie’s like– because up until this point, all she’s told Jane is that he proposed her– in the 2005, she hasn’t told her anything. But in the 1995, she’s explained he’s proposed to her all of this stuff, but not how she feels. Now, she’s like, “I love him. Huh, yeah”.

Ghenet: Whereas in the 2005 version, I do appreciate that moment where he’s like, “Oh, well. It would mean nothing if you really loved him.” She’s trying to explain, she can’t really, and he’s like, “Oh, you really do love him,” and that is cute. He knows his daughter so well. 

Becca: It’s so sweet. Yeah. 

Ghenet: Then, we pretty much come to the end. The 1995 version ends on a double wedding.

Molly: Yes. I do like that we get to see that double wedding versus in the 2005, where it’s cut to the wedding nights [crosstalk] 

Becca: [crosstalk] [laughs] 

Ghenet: That doesn’t exist in the UK version. So, it literally just ends after Mr. Bennet says, “Oh, if anyone comes for Kitty or Mary, I’m quite at my leisure. Da, da, da.” End of movie. 

[crosstalk] 

Becca: Oh, my God. 

Ghenet: Yeah, no, I’ve seen the last scene because obviously I’ve seen a US version of it. Would you guys like to explain what happens in the very last scene of 2005 adaptation? 

Becca: Of course. It is bizarre. 

Molly: So, we cut to Pemberley at nighttime, all the lights glistening on the square pond in front of the [unintelligible [00:57:04], and Lizzie is wearing his jacket, and he’s wearing a flowy shirt and peasant pants, and he looks like– I mean it’s definitely postcoital. 

Ghenet: Oh, yeah, absolutely. They are in a state of undress. 

Molly: And he comes out, and he says, “How are you tonight–” what does he call her? My dear? 

Becca: My dear. 

Molly: “How are you tonight, my dear?” 

Becca: She says, “Oh, don’t call me that, because that’s what my dad calls my mom.” He goes, “Well, what am I to call you?” She goes, “Lizzie for every day, my pearl for special occasions. And Mrs. Darcy but only when you are incandescently happy.”

Molly: Or, she thought that he could call her Goddess Divine. 

[laughter] 

Becca: Then the scene ends, they’re by candlelight on this little podium on his porch, and he’s just going, “Mrs. Darcy.” He’s kissing up her neck and face– [crosstalk] 

Molly: Her eyeballs.

Becca: Mrs. Darcy.

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca: Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy, this is Darcy. 

Molly: Then it ends with him kissing her on the lips, and honestly, the first time I watched this, it was so jarring. But then, the second time I watched, I was like, “All right, you could call me Mrs. Darcy and kiss me on the nose. I’d be okay with that.”

Ghenet: [laughs] 

Becca:  Yeah, they have chemistry. So, it doesn’t completely plummet the film into oblivion. But it is a weird scene.

Ghenet: It’s a very strange choice. Particularly, because also in the books, we get none of this. In the books, we just get an epilogue of like, so this is so– Here’s where everyone is now. 

Molly: Which I love. 

Ghenet: We see the wedding in the 1995 version, they get in their carriage, and then as they drive away, they have this moment where they look really lovingly at each other, and then they kiss, and it freeze frames. 

Becca: Yeah.

Molly: Credits roll over them, I think. 

Ghenet: That’s it. 

Becca: That end.

Ghenet: The end. So, yeah, that is in a nutshell, both adaptations, we talked about the pros and cons of both of them quite thoroughly, I think. 

Becca: Oh, yeah. 

Ghenet: Would you say from either the book, or the film, or the adaptation, what’s a standout moment for you?

Becca: I’m going to go with the lake scene in the 1995. 

Ghenet: Yeah, correct. 

Becca: Because I think there are very few moments in films that are so iconic and for adaptations that people believe that they happened in the book, and I think the lake scene is so defining in 1995 that many people do actually think that happened in the book. It really is such a great moment in the film for the character of Mr. Darcy. So, yeah, I’m going to go with the lake scene.

Molly: Yeah, the whole time at Pemberley in the 1995 for me is so good. I could watch that episode over and over again versus the 2005, I would not watch that part over and over again. 

Ghenet: [laughs] No, [crosstalk] 

Molly: But surprisingly enough, the 2005 proposal scene, as much as I want to talk shit about it which I do and I will endlessly, I also really loved it, and I think that maybe that has to go for the whole 2005 movie, I think there’s a lot of pros and cons to both of these films as we’ve talked about. 

Becca: Absolutely.

Molly and Ghenet: Yeah. 

Ghenet: I think, for me, it would definitely be the proposal. Because in the book and in both adaptations, they’ve taken it and made it their own, and it’s just so great no matter which version you’re watching. 

Molly: Absolutely.

Ghenet: So, I feel that’s probably the standout. Just out of curiosity, do you prefer the book or do you prefer one of the adaptations?

Becca: I think I’ve got to say the book. For me, personally, I think the book is just such a complete masterpiece and Jane Austen’s words stick with me forever. But I feel very lucky that I get to treasure all three. They’re so great.

Ghenet: Very diplomatic [crosstalk]. 

Molly: That is so sweet of you. 

Becca: [laughs] 

Molly: Yeah. So, I’ve read the book one time all the way through. But now, I’ve seen both adaptations four or five times each. I think that because I’ve read the book for work, we’re recording episodes on it, I had to be paying super close attention, it was a good book, but I think that the 1995 is just such a delight, and I had so much fun watching it, I didn’t have to watch each episode four times before we recorded. I just did that. So, I think I have to say the 1995 is the peak for me. 

Ghenet: I think there’s a lot of people who would be very happy to hear you say that. [laughs] I think I’m kind of on a middle ground between the two adaptations, because I have the familiarity with the film. But I understand why people love and are so passionate about the miniseries because it was amazing. The book is amazing. I will always say the book is better. But when it comes to the two, I don’t know if I can say that I love one more than the other because I feel like I’m somewhere softly in the middle. Hopefully, that’s not too scandalous an opinion. [laughs] 

Becca: No, no. I think it’s very fair. There’s some fair controversy about movies, but I think at the end of the day, we’re all lucky to have the story. I think it’s just great that people care about it so much. That’s– [crosstalk] 

Ghenet: Yeah, no, it’s amazing to see even after all this time, how many people are still so, so passionate about Pride and Prejudice, whichever version you’re talking about. Whether it’s the book or the adaptation, or even the other very loosely, loosely based adaptations. There’s a reason all these other versions keep getting made is because we love these stories, and we love these characters. 

Becca: Absolutely. 

Ghenet: Amazing. Well, that was such a fun conversation. Thank you, guys so much for joining me. 

Molly: Thank you for having us. 

Ghenet: Where can listeners find you on the internet?

Becca: If you love our Jane Austen takes, you can listen to a ton more of them through our podcast, Pod and Prejudice, which is available on iTunes, Spotify, anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Molly: We’re also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, whatever, @podandprejudice, and we post a lot of memes specifically on Instagram. So, come for those. They’re very fun. 

Ghenet: Amazing. Yes, I would love to hear what you guys think of what we’ve been talking about. So, feel free to chat to Molly and Becca as well as myself on the socials. We know Pride and Prejudice is a very controversial one to talk about. So, send those opinions our way. Thank you, guys so, so much for joining me. I’ve had an absolute blast chatting with you, today. 

Becca: Of course. 

Molly: Yeah, this has been so much fun. Thank you for having us.

Ghenet: No, it’s cool.

Becca: Yeah, sure.

[music]

Ghenet: The Book Was Better is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Ghenet. You can find us on Instagram @bookbetterpodcast and on Twitter @bookbetterpod. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please rate, and review, and don’t forget to tell your friends. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.